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Hardware Forum / Peripherals / Printers / February 2006GREAT NEWS FROM EPSON
GREAT NEWS FROM PCWORLD A COPY OF THE PCWORLD ARTICLE IS BELOW; Seiko Epson has filed more lawsuits against companies making or selling third-party ink cartridges that it believes infringe upon its intellectual patents. The company filed a complaint last week with the U.S. International Trade Commission against 24 companies that manufacture, import, or distribute aftermarket ink cartridges for sale in the U.S., the Japanese company said this week. The complaint seeks to ban the companies from importing or selling the cartridges in question in the U.S. In conjunction with this case the company also filed a lawsuit in the U.S. District Court in Portland against the same companies seeking damages for the alleged intellectual property infringement. Epson has also kicked off a patent infringement case against the English High Court against Medea International, it said. As in the U.S. cases Epson is alleging that ink cartridges imported by Medea International, which are sold in the U.K. under the Inkrite Photo Plus brand, infringe upon its patents. The case against the U.K. company was brought after it began promoting a spongeless valve design in its cartridges as being "radically different and unique." In fact, the design is similar to a patented Epson technology and the lawsuit was brought "to set the record straight," Epson said in a statement. Similar Situation Epson fought similar battles in 2005. In April it filed lawsuits <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/pcworld/tc_pcworld/storytext/124814/18158639/SI G=11pa211rn/*http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,120610,00.asp> in the same Portland court against Armor, of Nantes, France, and Multi-Union Trading, of Hong Kong. The latter ended with a settlement that saw 75 of Multi-Union's cartridge models barred from being imported and sold in the U.S. In June the U.K.'s Environmental Business Products said it had stopped importing and supplying Epson-compatible printer cartridges as a result of an out of court settlement between it and the Japanese company and in October another British company, CybaHouse, agreed to stop selling and importing Epson-compatible cartridges as part of a settlement with Epson. > GREAT NEWS FROM PCWORLD This little piggy made inkjets. That little piggy made none. This little piggy made cartridges That little piggy made some too. This little piggy squeeled: "That's my idea!" Same old, same old. Every day we read about technology companies arguing over patents - real or imagined. You win some, you lose some. >> GREAT NEWS FROM PCWORLD > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Same old, same old. Every day we read about technology companies arguing > over patents - real or imagined. You win some, you lose some. And Epson are likely to lose their entire market if they eventually succeed in closing all 3rd party ink suppliers. Not something I'm going to lose any sleep over, but these actions are already making people think twice about buying Epson printers. > > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >buying Epson printers. > I THINK THE POSTERS HERE SHOULD THINK TWICE ABOUT BUYING EPSON, HP AND CANON. THEY SHOULD ALL USE LEXMARK > >And Epson are likely to lose their entire market if they eventually succeed >in closing all 3rd party ink suppliers. Not something I'm going to lose any >sleep over, but these actions are already making people think twice about >buying Epson printers. Right, and some of us who "left" Epson, tried Canon, and then HP, and then came back to Epson. Who else makes desktop printers that use pigment inks for all color channels (and not just black?) The printers are sold at cost. The money is (and has always been) in the ink. rafe b www.terrapinphoto.com > Who else makes desktop printers that use > pigment inks for all color channels > (and not just black?) Canon has just joined the club with an A3+ and an A2 printer: A3+ PIXMA Pro9500: http://tinyurl.com/elwgd A2 imagePrograf iPF5000 http://tinyurl.com/jl8d3 Jon. >> Who else makes desktop printers that use >> pigment inks for all color channels [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >A2 imagePrograf iPF5000 http://tinyurl.com/jl8d3 Yes, interesting timing, eh? I ask, I receive! I wish Canon well in this product line, though I'll be watching this product intro from the sidelines -- having recently bought an Epson A3 printer (R1800). I've used Canon inkjets before and they're not all bad. But (IMO) Canon still needs to learn a few things about the market they are hoping to serve. A bit of respect (for their customers) would be a good start. rafe b www.terrapinphoto.com > I'll be watching this product intro from the > sidelines I'll be watching to see a) if the UK price just swaps the dollar sign for a pound sign almost doubling the price, as is very common, or whether the exchange rate is taken into consideration and b) how much they're going to charge for the inks. Jon. > > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >(and not just black?) > I THINK CANON MAKES AN ALL PIGMENT PRINTER THAT IS SOLD IN THEIR BUSINESS CLASS >The printers are sold at cost. The money >is (and has always been) in the ink. > >rafe b >www.terrapinphoto.com > Rumor has it Canon is releasing some 10 color pigment ink printers in wider formats. I believe HP makes some professional models that use pigment inks. And, eventually some dye formulations may be as good as pigment in permanence, with the right paper combinations. And even Epson's pigment inks have not been without problems. The Durabrite inks have been a headache for many, especially or late (all-in-ones seem to be the most problematic). Epson will need to be careful with it's approach here. Their markets are not assured, and they have a number of black eyes in terms of their corporate methods and poor environmental record. Art >>And Epson are likely to lose their entire market if they eventually succeed >>in closing all 3rd party ink suppliers. Not something I'm going to lose any [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > rafe b > www.terrapinphoto.com > Rumor has it Canon is releasing some 10 color pigment ink printers in > wider formats. I believe HP makes some professional models that use [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > are not assured, and they have a number of black eyes in terms of > their corporate methods and poor environmental record. YEAH AND CAN YOU IMAGINE THE PROBLEMS WITH AFTERMARKET INK IF THEY SOLD ANY KIND OF VOLUME > Art > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >> rafe b >> www.terrapinphoto.com > Rumor has it Canon is releasing some 10 color pigment ink printers in > wider formats. I believe HP makes some professional models that use [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > are not assured, and they have a number of black eyes in terms of their > corporate methods and poor environmental record. I read up on the 10 tank canon printer at one point. It's hard for me to find as it was in Japanese but I believe you're refering to the replacement to the i9900, or at least is believed to be the replacement to the i9900. Current model numbers in japan are the pixus pro9000 and pro9500. http://cweb.canon.jp/pixus/lineup/pro9000/index.html http://cweb.canon.jp/pixus/lineup/pro9500/index.html If canon plans to release an a3 pigment printer, I suspect it would be the pro9500. Simply put it's the only one listed that isn't marked chromalife100. Canon does have pigment printers but only in the wide class (imagePrograf), as in a2 and above, the newest is the ipw-5000 sporting 12 tanks (Lucia ink) and a2. Price I'd imagine would be above 2 grand and is actually shown on the canon.jp website. http://cweb.canon.jp/imageprograf/lineup/ipf5000/index.html >>Rumor has it Canon is releasing some 10 color pigment ink printers in >>wider formats. I believe HP makes some professional models that use [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > I read up on the 10 tank canon printer at one point. Yikes! Another clever money grab by Canon! There was a time when we had to buy but two cartridges to run a printer. Let's see.... 10 cartridges at about $20 CAD per cartridge is over $200 CAD plus tax ($230 CAD) for a set of new cartridges. Sure, no problem I'll just print up some more money :-). Can the 16 cartridge model be far behind? -Taliesyn >>> Rumor has it Canon is releasing some 10 color pigment ink printers in >>> wider formats. I believe HP makes some professional models that use [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >>> are not assured, and they have a number of black eyes in terms of their >>> corporate methods and poor environmental record. HE STILL SPOUTS THE MATT ZAKOWSKI BULLSHIT >> I read up on the 10 tank canon printer at one point. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > -Taliesyn > Yikes! Another clever money grab by Canon! There was a time when we > had to buy but two cartridges to run a printer. Let's see.... 10 > cartridges at about $20 CAD per cartridge is over $200 CAD plus tax > ($230 CAD) for a set of new cartridges. Sure, no problem I'll just print > up some more money :-). Can the 16 cartridge model be far behind? Well, it seems you have your choice. In a3 you have the ix5000 and 6100i. Both 4 tank printers, and the pro9500 10 tank pigment and the pro9000 8 tank dye. The ipf5000 12 tank printer if i'm reading correctly sports 130ml tanks. http://cweb.canon.jp/imageprograf/lineup/ipf5000/benefit02.html Note I have yet to meet any of these models. >>Yikes! Another clever money grab by Canon! There was a time when we >>had to buy but two cartridges to run a printer. Let's see.... 10 [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Note I have yet to meet any of these models. 130ml tanks? That's about the size of 4 times the current BCI-3e black. At what cost?... 4 times the price of the BCI-3e? .... like $80 CAD a cartridge? Times 12 cartridges??? . . . . $1,000 CAD! I can see one in every home!!! -Taliesyn >130ml tanks? > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >I can see one in every home!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_size Well, considering we are talking an a2 printer, we are not exactly talking a home printer. We are talking wide, wider than a3 superB tabloid printers. Not so large they won't fit onto a desk, but not so large they are a desk. But since you asked... BCI-1302C (W6200) fetches like $50ish USD/pop for OEM. List I think is $70. Canadian dollar is pretty strong these days, so closer to $60 i'd "guess" for canadian. So yes I would guess a refill would cost between $700 and $1000 CAD. But keep in mind it's 10x the volume of a bci-6. Assuming $20 Canadian for a bci-6 tank, that would be $2400 canadian. We are talking 10x the volume at 1/2 the price, which is what you would expect from a a2 sized printer. So no, I don't expect it to hit every home, just like the i9900/i9950, a simple a3/superB sized printer is too large for your average user. But it is a legit option for pigment ink and while costing a few grand, and while refills will cost you almost a grand, we are talking a printer that's designed to handle 16.5 x 23.4 in paper. > Yikes! Another clever money grab by Canon! There was a time when we > had to buy but two cartridges to run a printer. Let's see.... 10 [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > -Taliesyn If it does happen (16 cartridge model) I doubt even our oem fool will be able to afford the oem carts for it. Frank > If it does happen (16 cartridge model) I doubt even our oem fool will > be able to afford the oem carts for it. It wouldn't fit the playpen anyway. Jon. I am wondering whether we, consumers, could bring Epson to the court or not.. I felt that clogging harmed me and all other Epson owners. I mean a class action suit. Craig >>> GREAT NEWS FROM PCWORLD >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > lose any sleep over, but these actions are already making people think > twice about buying Epson printers. YOU NEED ONE AGAINST THE RELABELERS WHO WILL NOT TELL YOU WHAT YOU ARE BUYING AND THEIR CRAP CLOGS YOUR PRINTER. >I am wondering whether we, consumers, could bring Epson to the court or >not.. [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > > YOU NEED ONE AGAINST THE RELABELERS WHO WILL NOT TELL YOU WHAT YOU ARE > BUYING AND THEIR CRAP CLOGS YOUR PRINTER. Epson is clogging your printer and they tell you what you are buying. Get lost you miserable troll, you're brain-dead. Jeff >>I am wondering whether we, consumers, could bring Epson to the court > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Get lost you miserable troll, you're brain-dead. Jeff > YOU NEED ONE AGAINST THE RELABELERS WHO WILL NOT TELL YOU WHAT YOU ARE > BUYING AND THEIR CRAP CLOGS YOUR PRINTER. JEFF DA TROLL > > >> >> >>>I am wondering whether we, consumers, could bring Epson to the court >>> >> >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >> BUYING AND THEIR CRAP CLOGS YOUR PRINTER. JEFF DA TROLL Oooooo.... disaster! No return argument. In football this would be called a fumble. Jeff's gone for another touchdown! -Taliesyn >>YOU NEED ONE AGAINST THE RELABELERS WHO WILL NOT TELL YOU WHAT YOU ARE >>BUYING AND THEIR CRAP CLOGS YOUR PRINTER. > > Epson is clogging your printer and they tell you what you are buying. In football this would be called a touchdown! > Get lost you miserable troll, you're brain-dead. Jeff I'm not here to argue with anyone. So I'll take your word for it. -Taliesyn measekite <inkystinky@oem.com> wrote in news:z9lLf.36695$F_3.14498 @newssvr29.news.prodigy.net: > YOU NEED ONE AGAINST THE RELABELERS WHO WILL NOT TELL YOU WHAT YOU ARE > BUYING AND THEIR CRAP CLOGS YOUR PRINTER. No, you jsut need to be a sharp shopper and not buy from unknown vendors. >measekite <inkystinky@oem.com> wrote in news:z9lLf.36695$F_3.14498 >@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >No, you jsut need to be a sharp shopper and not buy from unknown vendors. > AND YOU ARE A STUPID ONE I have thought the same thing. Not just the clogging, and wasted time and ink, and printers (that were tossed), but the waste ink pad fillups, also. There is no mention in any user manual that I have seen that reports the limitation of this "consumable" and the cost to have it replaced. It is a ticking time-bomb in every Epson printer, which , without warning can terminate your printer's ability to print. Art > I am wondering whether we, consumers, could bring Epson to the court or > not.. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >>lose any sleep over, but these actions are already making people think >>twice about buying Epson printers. Arthur - The waste pad problem also exists, as you know, with the Canon printers. I wonder if the printer manufacturers have built into their calculations the expected volume that most people print before the printers bite the dust and assume that this will happen before the dreaded waste pad fill up occurs and the printer shuts down. >I have thought the same thing. Not just the clogging, and wasted time and >ink, and printers (that were tossed), but the waste ink pad fillups, also. [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >>>to lose any sleep over, but these actions are already making people think >>>twice about buying Epson printers. Arthur Entlich <e-printerhelp@mvps.org> wrote in news:8TELf.67180$H%4.30902 @pd7tw2no: > I have thought the same thing. Not just the clogging, and wasted time > and ink, and printers (that were tossed), but the waste ink pad fillups, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Art Not only Epson, nearly all Inkjets (consumer and light business anyway), have a fixed waste ink pads. > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >This little piggy squeeled: "That's my idea!" > OHMY GOD IT IS BRANDYSWINE >Same old, same old. Every day we read about technology companies arguing >over patents - real or imagined. You win some, you lose some. > measekite <inkystinky@oem.com> wrote in news:TM3Lf.15901$2O6.2752 @newssvr12.news.prodigy.com: >> >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> > OHMY GOD IT IS BRANDYSWINE Oh my God, it's Tranfaglia! >>Same old, same old. Every day we read about technology companies arguing >>over patents - real or imagined. You win some, you lose some. >> OHMY GOD IT IS BRANDYSWINE >measekite <inkystinky@oem.com> wrote in news:TM3Lf.15901$2O6.2752 >@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com: [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > All these law suites, guess the income from the cartridges are paying for them. Davy > All these law suites, guess the income from the cartridges are paying > for them. > > Davy heheheh...yeah...and that moron meashershithead is providing most of the money with his oem all cap crap. He's beyond stupid! Frank Epson.....let them clog, let them bring lawsuites who cares......? Davy |
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