>I would like to build a dedicated home file server to reduce
>duplication of files between my several computers by having everything
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>RAM machines available for this task. All have standard ATX desktop
>chassis.
The P3/256MB ram would be plenty for the task, but the other
concern is what the motherboard supports, your available
hard drives for example. I have a very reliable Celeron 500
(or is it 533? It's been so long I don't remember)
fileserver that just won't die, I put a gigabit ethernet
card in it a few years ago and it still just keeps on
ticking like a timex watch, sans the rare HDD failures we'd
expect every few years.
>I have quite a few hard drives I would like to hook up to the system,
>about 4 IDE HDDs and 3 SATA ones, totalling about 3-4TB of data (and
>growing). I already have a SiI0680A PCI to ATA card and a gigabit
>ethernet card.
SiI0680 can do the job, though having a couple of those in
use I find them a little fickle. They seem to like
degrading the ATA mode to lower than a typical mobo ata
controller would. I mean their logs show and warn it is
happening. This may be a control-freak scenario, if utmost
performance isn't needed, it would be no big deal if they
degrade to ATA66 or even ATA33, but it can cause some time
spent determining why and time googling for reasons when
people randomly suggest things like bad power or data cables
when an otherwise same system can run the drives ok on same
power and cables.
In other words, SiI0680 is a good budget choice to just get
raid, but performance may suffer. For many people's
fileserver needs it may not matter, just be aware if it
throws you a curve in ATA mode warnings.
>Which computer do you think I should pick to start converting into a
>file server? What hardware should I include in the file server?
Any of the above systems have ample performance, more than
enough. PCI bus with a raid card will bottleneck more than
cpu or memory amounts for a limited # of users with a home
fileserver. Some chipsets are worse for PCI performance
than others, Via in particular was bad for it and I wouldn't
trust their current chipsets due to how many chipsets they
released over and over and over without any bother to
attempt correcting the problem. So it's back to motherboard
since 256MB and the CPUs listed are plenty.
Then there's power. The P3 system will automatically use
less power, and the core2 combo has idle plus more voltage
and multiplier options to reduce power. The central idea
here is that for a low concurrent user scenario, the P3
900MHz is even more than you need, if lowering power
consumption is important you might actually consider
underclocking that. No kidding, it might make only a
trivial difference in performance but shave a few KWH off
your electric bill.
The idea is that if you use the older parts, the newer ones
remain available for other purposes. If you would have a
random scenario where the newer parts would be thrown away
otherwise, by alll means then use the Core2 system with more
memory - but it won't make much difference, the bottlenecks
in this use are primarily PCI bus and HDD individual
performance.
I must confess that I have played around with a lot of
various hardware towards the goal you have. Basically you
need to decide which is most important. Power, performance,
or cost/resale of parts. Then rank those as relative to
each other. If performance is important (for limited user
home fileserver), it's not the memory or CPU that matter as
much as having a raid controller that isn't on the PCI bus,
and same for the ethernet. However, there is much to be
said for doing things dirt cheap and still reliably, having
either or both on the PCI bus you can still have 30+MB/s if
a decent (Sis, nVidia or Intel) chipset and drives more than
a few years old... and of course gigabit ethernet.
i suppose I assumed gigabit ethernet, if you don't have that
then none of the above matters, there's nothing that can't
saturate 100Mb made in the past 8 years.
Dan Green - 28 Apr 2008 08:04 GMT
> On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 00:46:54 -0700 (PDT), Dan Green
>
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
> ticking like a timex watch, sans the rare HDD failures we'd
> expect every few years.
The IDE HDDs can be attached to the P3 via the on-board IDE
connections and the Sil0680 card. The SATA HDDs might be a bit
trickier. I might have to buy a PCI-SATA card or use the P4 3GHz/1GB
RAM computer for the task as that one has SATA connections on the
mobo.
> >I have quite a few hard drives I would like to hook up to the system,
> >about 4 IDE HDDs and 3 SATA ones, totalling about 3-4TB of data (and
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> fileserver needs it may not matter, just be aware if it
> throws you a curve in ATA mode warnings.
OK, thanks for the tip.
> >Which computer do you think I should pick to start converting into a
> >file server? What hardware should I include in the file server?
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> attempt correcting the problem. So it's back to motherboard
> since 256MB and the CPUs listed are plenty.
There will be no users using it except for myself. Keeping my files up
to date and tracking where the redundant copies are is proving to be a
nightmare.
> Then there's power. The P3 system will automatically use
> less power, and the core2 combo has idle plus more voltage
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> trivial difference in performance but shave a few KWH off
> your electric bill.
Exactly, that's what I had in mind. Currently I've got a dual core PC
as the file server, and it is overkill. I loathe to turn it on just
because it drains power, and that just defeats the purpose of it.
> The idea is that if you use the older parts, the newer ones
> remain available for other purposes. If you would have a
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> in this use are primarily PCI bus and HDD individual
> performance.
I might use the old P3 as an external file server that's usually
physically disconnected from my home network but visible to the WWW.
The P4 1.7GHz might become a non-secure machine that I use for Skype
and testing "free/trial" applications. The P4 3GHz one will probably
become the secure file server due to its on-board SATA connections (it
is the lowest specced one that does).
> I must confess that I have played around with a lot of
> various hardware towards the goal you have. Basically you
> need to decide which is most important. Power, performance,
> or cost/resale of parts.
Most important is the security of my data, which means that I want the
internal file server separate from the externally visible one. That
means at least two.
Power consumption is also important.
I don't really want to buy a PCI-SATA card as it costs about half of a
new mobo these days and is pretty much a waste of money when I have
the available hardware to do the job.
> Then rank those as relative to
> each other. If performance is important (for limited user
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> then none of the above matters, there's nothing that can't
> saturate 100Mb made in the past 8 years.
Thanks,
Dan.
kony - 28 Apr 2008 10:13 GMT
>I don't really want to buy a PCI-SATA card as it costs about half of a
>new mobo these days and is pretty much a waste of money when I have
>the available hardware to do the job.
I suppose it depends on which motherboards you're looking
at, some PCI-SATA cards are fairly affordable at $40 or
less.
There are some other benefits to the SATA card. If
motherboard fails you can move the card and drives to
another system without concern about whether it had
integrated SATA. If you were (now or eventually) wanting
RAID5, that is going to require using same controller,
meaning if you set it up on a motherboard and the board
fails, you must get same/compatible replacement board to
access the data. SATA PCI cards are less likely to fail
than a motherboard.
If you only wanted to devote 1 or 2 drives, there is still a
simplier option, to simply install those in one of your
existing (client) systems and have it become the fileserver
for the rest. If that system stayed on anyway it would save
a bit more power, or possibly consume more power if you were
previously turning it off when unused.
> I would like to build a dedicated home file server to reduce
> duplication of files between my several computers by having everything
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> Which computer do you think I should pick to start converting into a
> file server? What hardware should I include in the file server?
Although RAID 1 makes sense as protection from a single drive's catastrophic
failure...
it would be of no use in the event of file system corruption or contagion.
I do not think it a good practice to contain all your important data in one
central location.
The real key to data backup is to store it in as many different locations as
possible.
Rather than set up a central server...I'd add one large drive to each of
your machines
and keep your important data in *every* location. Your data would be
extremely safe with such a scheme...
and I'm sure there are plenty of synchronization methods available.
Dan Green - 28 Apr 2008 08:05 GMT
> > I would like to build a dedicated home file server to reduce
> > duplication of files between my several computers by having everything
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
> extremely safe with such a scheme...
> and I'm sure there are plenty of synchronization methods available.
Hmm, that is another option. I decided to centralise the data because
keeping all the files updated and tracking which computer has the most
recent version is proving to be a major headache.
Any recommended synchronisation methods particularly in SuSe Linux?
Thanks,
Dan.
philo - 28 Apr 2008 12:23 GMT
<snip>
> > > I have quite a few hard drives I would like to hook up to the system,
> > > about 4 IDE HDDs and 3 SATA ones, totalling about 3-4TB of data (and
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
> Any recommended synchronisation methods particularly in SuSe Linux?
Though I do use Linux from time to time...I suggest asking on one of the
SuSe groups as I have
never done any automated tasks.
I think that if synchronization were set up automatically, it would be a
safer scenario
then a centralized repository.
(just my opinion of course)