Hardware Forum / PC Hardware / General Topics 1 / May 2006
Fan Yellow Wire...
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lupo666 - 27 Apr 2006 15:06 GMT Hi all,
I have purchased a new front fan for my case and did the 7-volts trick, using the supplied molex adapter and switching the cables around and everything works fine.
The only problem I have is that I would like to use the speed sensor (yellow wire). I have found an extra 3-pin connector from a broken fan and plugged the yellow wire in the proper position, but it doesn't get read from SpeedFan or ASUS PC Probe.
What would be the proper wiring to use, if doable at all?
Thanks, Lupo
Paul - 27 Apr 2006 16:32 GMT > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Thanks, Lupo If you are using the 7 volt trick, I don't see a good reason why the tacho output signal would work. The tacho output is ground referenced, and when you connect the fan black and red wires to +5V and +12V respectively, the tacho is referenced to +5V, and can no longer pull to ground. That is bound to upset the monitor chip, and it will not see a signal.
If you want to drop the voltage to the fan, and have the tachometer output work also, try this:
| | | | | | | +12V ---|>|--|>|--|>|--|>|--|>|--|>|--|>|------- to fan +12V | | | | | | |
GND ------------------------------------------- to fan GND
The component in the picture, is a 1N4001 switching diode. Any of the family of diodes would work, from 1N4001 through 1N4007, and they are rated for 1 ampere of current max. Each diode will drop roughly 0.7V, (12 - 7*0.7) = 7.1 volts. I have a string of those diodes in my gaming PC, for the main fan.
You don't need solder, and you can just twist the leads of the diodes into a chain. My local electronics store sells these diodes in bags of 25 for about $3 or so. Many other sources sell them for a lot more, so shop around.
There is a band marking on one end of the diode, and in the above picture, the band is on the right hand side of each diode shown in the picture.
Make sure you insulate the leads on the diodes, so they cannot touch anything in the computer. Mounting the diodes on a piece of perfboard would be an alternative way to mount them, and the perfboard will make it easier to come up with a techique to mount the diodes inside the computer.
To make the fan run faster, use fewer diodes.
To make the fan run slower, use more diodes.
With the above diode technique, the tachometer signal will work.
You can also try running the fan from +5V and GND, which will make the fan a bit slower than it is at 7V, but again, the tachometer signal will pull to ground properly. Some fans will not start with just 5V on them, so you'll have to test it and see what happens.
Just a guess, Paul
UCLAN - 27 Apr 2006 19:15 GMT >>I have purchased a new front fan for my case and did the 7-volts trick, >>using the supplied molex adapter and switching the cables around and [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > GND ------------------------------------------- to fan GND [...snip]
Why not just use a 5.1v zener diode?
Paul - 27 Apr 2006 23:25 GMT > >>I have purchased a new front fan for my case and did the 7-volts trick, > >>using the supplied molex adapter and switching the cables around and [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Why not just use a 5.1v zener diode? Power dissipation ? You wouldn't want to use one of those tiny 400mW ones. And a 5 watt zener is $1.20 at Digikey, and I think I can get the 1N4000 series cheaper.
Even with the diode scheme, you shouldn't really run it all the way up to an amp. A couple hundred milliamps probably won't hurt.
I was going to mention a three terminal regulator and a couple 0.22uF decoupling caps as another solution, but I don't know if those are that easy to find. And that is too much of an electronics project :-) Next, people will want a pot on it, so they can dial the voltage.
LM317 $0.75 and a better way to go... For heavy currents, you'll need a heatsink. http://www.national.com/ds.cgi/LM/LM117.pdf http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?Ref=365239&Row=172496&S ite=US
Paul
UCLAN - 28 Apr 2006 07:20 GMT >>>If you are using the 7 volt trick, I don't see a good reason >>>why the tacho output signal would work. The tacho output is [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > 400mW ones. And a 5 watt zener is $1.20 at Digikey, and I think > I can get the 1N4000 series cheaper. My time is worth a lot more than the difference in price between 8- 1N4000 series diodes and ONE $1.20 zener. The installation is not as messy, either. A chassis mount 100 ohm pot is the solution *I* use on my machine.
kony - 28 Apr 2006 00:54 GMT >>>I have purchased a new front fan for my case and did the 7-volts trick, >>>using the supplied molex adapter and switching the cables around and [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > >Why not just use a 5.1v zener diode? More expensive and harder to come by (for someone who didn't already know about & have one). Someplace like Radio Shack might have 1W zeners but that's borderline and more common are 500mW. Ideally, the control method will make the fan subsystem more reliable instead of less-so, but does the average person have > 1W zeners lying around? Doubtful, most good designs don't use higher value zeners at all.
The optimal solution though is not a purely voltage limiting control, rather current limiting. Something like an LM317 in current limiting configuration would work but far easier and cheaper to just use a 2W resistor. A fan will run quieter on a resistor than is possible with diodes or any other means of voltage reduction. Typical value of resistor depends on the fan spec, typically around 47 Ohm for a higher speed fan or approaching 120 Ohm for lower speed fans. Since resistors are a few cents each it's often worthwhile to just buy a couple of the common values like 47, 68, 82, 100, 120 Ohms or at least every-other value.
UCLAN - 28 Apr 2006 07:28 GMT >>>If you want to drop the voltage to the fan, and have the >>>tachometer output work also, try this: [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > average person have > 1W zeners lying around? Doubtful, > most good designs don't use higher value zeners at all. As I said, my time is worth a lot more than the difference in price between 8 diodes and ONE 1W zener. Construction ease and "neatness" is also better with the zener. If I want to make it difficult, I'll use a 100 chassis mount pot.
lupo666 - 28 Apr 2006 19:10 GMT Hi, thanks for the replies, they were very helpful. The reason I chose the 7V trick is because is clean (just switched the molex wires around) and gives me more than 5V, which is a bit too low. I think, in the end, I'll do w/o the fan monitoring, because is not the CPU or power fan and just keep monitoring the HDs, MB and CPU temperatures for any anormalities...
THX, Lupo
eight@insightbb.com - 30 Apr 2006 05:02 GMT > >>>If you want to drop the voltage to the fan, and have the > >>>tachometer output work also, try this: [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > "neatness" is also better with the zener. If I want to make it > difficult, I'll use a 100 chassis mount pot. It's still a sub-optimal solution.
Do you expect anyone to have these > 1W zeners? Did you expect a local shop to have them? Unlikely, you'd be special-ordering them at a price premium because very few people use them... why would they when a typical 10 cent zener and 50 cent Darlingtion can be made into a pass-transistor arrangement if you want more current... Then it's still much lower than it's current rating too.
A zener simply isn't optimal, nor are diodes. Current limiting is, and is possible just as easily, cheaper, and with more readily available parts when using resistor(s).
The value of your time is in special-ordering these zeners when it takes far less time to find the resistors, or they're common enough some might already have them. I keep random stock of misc. electronic parts here, including zeners, diodes, resistors and quite a bit more. Generic 400x diodes I have plenty of, 2W resistors I do too, but off hand I recall no > 1W zeners at all. They're just not the best solution thus nobody stocks them.
UCLAN - 30 Apr 2006 05:26 GMT >>As I said, my time is worth a lot more than the difference in >>price between 8 diodes and ONE 1W zener. Construction ease and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Do you expect anyone to have these > 1W zeners? Do you expect the average reader of this NG would have a stash of 1N4000 series diodes?
> Did you expect a local shop to have them? My local Radio Shack has them. And all online parts outlets, such as DigiKey and Newark, have them.
> Unlikely, you'd be special-ordering them at a price premium because > very few people use them... why would they when a typical 10 cent zener > and 50 cent Darlingtion can be made into a pass-transistor arrangement > if you want more current... Then it's still much lower than it's > current rating too. Right...and the average NG reader has *those* on hand. Uh huh...
> A zener simply isn't optimal, nor are diodes. Current limiting is, and > is possible just as easily, cheaper, and with more readily available > parts when using resistor(s). So you are in agreement with my 100 ohm chassis mount pot solution?
> The value of your time is in special-ordering these zeners when it > takes far less time to find the resistors, or they're common enough > some might already have them. I keep random stock of misc. electronic > parts here, including zeners, diodes, resistors and quite a bit more. It takes me just as long to order 1N4000 series diodes online as it does to order the correct zener. I don't care what random stock you keep. The average reader of this NG does not, and will likely end up ordering his parts. The 100 ohm pot is available at Radio Shack as well. Use high fan speed when you need it; slow it down when you don't.
kony - 30 Apr 2006 18:45 GMT > >>As I said, my time is worth a lot more than the difference in > >>price between 8 diodes and ONE 1W zener. Construction ease and [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Do you expect the average reader of this NG would have a stash of > 1N4000 series diodes? Well... if they have the soldering iron, the basic ability to orient the polarity of the (1N400x or zener) and heatshrink it (or whatever covering), yes I do feel if they have these basic skills and any parts lying around, 1N400x diodes are as common as dirt and almost as cheap, as are many resistors. Look at all the electronics you have in your home, I meant retail products. Count the # of > 1W zeners in them, I'll bet the # is low if not zero.
> > Did you expect a local shop to have them? > > My local Radio Shack has them. And all online parts outlets, such > as DigiKey and Newark, have them. You are fortunate to have such a well stocked Radio Shack then, they dont' even offer over 1W zeners online. Sure, Digikey and Newark, et al do, but if you're going to order from a big electronics house like those then it makes all the less sense to use a zener. Voltage reduction is not the actual goal here, it is merely assumed (by some) that it is the means towards the end of reducing fan speed (mostly to combat noise). Current, not voltage, limiting is the more effective way to do this.
> > Unlikely, you'd be special-ordering them at a price premium because > > very few people use them... why would they when a typical 10 cent zener [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Right...and the average NG reader has *those* on hand. Uh huh... Well you ARE the one who brings up Radio Shack or Digikey/etc. If you're going out to buy the things then a 15 cent 500mV zener and 1A pass transistor is better than a 5W zener and costs less too.
> > A zener simply isn't optimal, nor are diodes. Current limiting is, and > > is possible just as easily, cheaper, and with more readily available > > parts when using resistor(s). > > So you are in agreement with my 100 ohm chassis mount pot solution? Given one of enough current capablity to be called a rheostat, it'd work, but is a personal decision and I can only give the reasons why I wouldn't.
- More expensive - I don't need to change the fan speed, it gets set right at first and never fiddled with. Fine-tuning down to a dozen RPM one way or the other is pretty insignificant, IMO, and might not be obtainable anyway on the wire-wound types since there is an inherant granularity to the adjustment when it hits each wrapping of the element wire. - Another mechanical part subject to failure. Remember my ideal is 50 years (even if not really used that long), and it's quite clear that pots have potential to degrade in far less time than that, especially if a marginally-current-rated "pot" subject to thermal cycle wear as well as the other more obvious mechanical issues. - You need a place to mount it, and it can look a bit ghetto unless you have a fancy knob and even then it can look out of place. The simple inline resistor has unde 1 inch of non-flexible segment in the fan lead and can be completely unobtrusive. I've used them for many years and they work great. - 100 Ohm can be a bit on the low side. I typically buy manufacturers' "low" speed fans to begin with and they may need a little higher than 100 ohm, particularly on larger than 80mm fans. There are ways around that if one had the rheostat, having a couple diodes in series too, but unless that adjustability is needed the time to do it goes up, as well as cost, size. At lower cost than such a rheostat is also a linear such as LM317 plus one resistor, in current-limiting mode. That is a bit more involved though, and why I seldom suggest it as it has no particular benefit over the higher wattage resistor alone, actually less of a benefit because of the vdrop of the regulator being part of the power loss to the extent that the resistor used with the LM317 is a lesser current limiter as % of incoming voltage opposed to using only the resistor. The difference is only slight though, could depend on a specific fan whether it mattered in practice.
> > The value of your time is in special-ordering these zeners when it > > takes far less time to find the resistors, or they're common enough [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > parts. The 100 ohm pot is available at Radio Shack as well. Use high fan > speed when you need it; slow it down when you don't. I'll bet it doesn't, actually take as long. Type 1N4001 into one of the surplus electronics 'sites (else if going with Digikey, you pay the small-order fee and that $1.42 zener ends up costing $1.42 + $5 small order fee + (at least) $3 shipping = $9.42. For about that cost you can get a few hundred 1N4001 delivered from a surplus 'site or at least faster since you don't have to pour over the specs as with the zener. Keep in mind though, I"m not the one who advocated the string of 1N4001. They will work, but I advocate a power resistor. You can get a bag of 100 for about $2 at one of the surplus 'sites, or just spend the $1 for only a handfull elsewhere.
To put it to the test though, right now I'll go to Digikey... Enter in search term "1N4001" and you get one page of hits, can just buy the very first item that appears and do fine. If you feel like scrolling down a dozen lines they're a couple cents cheaper.
Next at Digikey I enter "5.1V zener". Immediately the next page causes the user to choose package type. Who, not knowing already to use a zener and having read your reply, will know the packages they come in? Regardless, let's support they skip that and choose at least 1.5W for some reasonable margin. OOPS! Those are all surface mount parts. Hopefully they are experienced enough to realize this, but maybe not, and either way, this is certainly taking a lot longer than getting those 1N4001. So we go back and choose 2W zener, get one choice in small quantity at $1.42 each. Ok so far, except we now need to recognize that it's DO-41, meaning it's heat density is higher than any other alternative... hook it up to the wrong fan and you will have to isolate it somehow, because it will get hot. They're often rated up to the (n)W with the disclaimer than to handle this, their leads are soldered into a board to 'sink away some of that heat. You may find that a 2W zener isn't even enough, so do you know this ahead of time (does someone else buying them), or do they now go back to Digikey and spend at least another $X for the 3W size. Oops, those are all surface mount too. This is taking a lot longer.
OK then, back one page at Digikey to the 5W zeners. Hmm, they don't stock any!
Ok, now go to Mouser or Newark or (insert your fav. here), and lather-rinse-repeat.
I didn't suggest the resistor just for the heck of it, it's an ideal way to do this _unless_ one must have adjustability later. I find I don't and have a TON of systems with the resistors... even having zeners and pass transistors, 1N4001, LM317, et al here to choose from. Even so, the other methods will work provided the details (like Zener wattage rating) are kept in mind.
UCLAN - 30 Apr 2006 21:42 GMT >>>>As I said, my time is worth a lot more than the difference in >>>>price between 8 diodes and ONE 1W zener. Construction ease and [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > home, I meant retail products. Count the # of > 1W zeners in them, > I'll bet the # is low if not zero. Again, you are answering a question I asked of eight@insightbb.com. Strange. But, I suspect that the percentage of readers of this NG that have 1N4000 series diodes on hand is very small. What I or you have on hand is irrelevant, really. And yes, I have a bag of zeners on hand, many of the 1W or greater.
> You are fortunate to have such a well stocked Radio Shack then, they > dont' even offer over 1W zeners online. Sure, Digikey and Newark, et [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > combat noise). Current, not voltage, limiting is the more effective > way to do this. The only way to reduce the current that DC computer case fans draw is to reduce the voltage across them. A resistor in series drops the voltage across the fan simply by dropping voltage itself. I would *really* be interested in your solution of reducing fan speed of a 12v fan while still giving it 12v.
>>>Unlikely, you'd be special-ordering them at a price premium because >>>very few people use them... why would they when a typical 10 cent zener [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > you're going out to buy the things then a 15 cent 500mV zener and 1A > pass transistor is better than a 5W zener and costs less too. LOL! His (eight@insightbb.com) comment about Daringtons, etc., came *before* I mentioned Digikey - in the *same* post that he (you?) said that my choice of using a zener was dumb because the average user wouldn't have them on hand. My point was (which you realize) that if the user didn't have the zeners, he isn't likely to have the Darlingtons.
>>>A zener simply isn't optimal, nor are diodes. Current limiting is, and >>>is possible just as easily, cheaper, and with more readily available [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > work, but is a personal decision and I can only give the reasons why I > wouldn't. Current capability is not a factor in determining if a device is a rheostat or a potentiometer. How the terminals of the device are connected in a circuit is the determining factor. A potentiometer with its center contact shorted to either end becomes a rheostat. A low current potentiometer becomes a low current rheostat. A chassis mounted potentiometer wired as a rheostat makes an excellent fan speed control.
> - More expensive Nonsense. More expensive than what? The cheapest solution to variable fan speed control available. Many fans now come with a small pot inline!
> - I don't need to change the fan speed, it gets set right at first and > never fiddled with. Fine-tuning down to a dozen RPM one way or the > other is pretty insignificant, IMO, and might not be obtainable anyway > on the wire-wound types since there is an inherant granularity to the > adjustment when it hits each wrapping of the element wire. Many people want high fan speed when it's needed, and lower fan speed when the computer is on, but idling. Soldering ONE pot is certainly easier than soldering seven or eight diodes.
> - Another mechanical part subject to failure. Remember my ideal is 50 > years (even if not really used that long), and it's quite clear that > pots have potential to degrade in far less time than that, especially > if a marginally-current-rated "pot" subject to thermal cycle wear as > well as the other more obvious mechanical issues. Horse manure! You want a part that provides 50 years of life in a PC that is upgraded every few years? And your thermal issues are without merit. The entire case is a heatsink, though not needed in such a low power application. You're grasping at straws here.
> - You need a place to mount it, and it can look a bit ghetto unless > you have a fancy knob and even then it can look out of place. An unused drive bay cover is my usual candidate. Or, if none available (or if rear mounting is preferred), an expansion slot cover.
> - 100 Ohm can be a bit on the low side. I typically buy > manufacturers' "low" speed fans to begin with and they may need a > little higher than 100 ohm, particularly on larger than 80mm fans. Low speed fans are not the usual candidates for quieting, are they? Even so, just 50mA still drops 5v across 100 ohms. 100 ohms provides much better resolution than does a 250 ohm or 500 ohm pot, and is large enough 99% of the time.
>>It takes me just as long to order 1N4000 series diodes online as it does >>to order the correct zener. I don't care what random stock you keep. The [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Next at Digikey I enter "5.1V zener". Ah, comparing exact part number of the diode to a general description for the zener. Cute, but apples vs. oranges. Try entering the part number of the zener. What? That would ruin your test?
> I didn't suggest the resistor just for the heck of it, it's an ideal > way to do this _unless_ one must have adjustability later. I find I > don't and have a TON of systems with the resistors... I've used resistors, too. My suggestion of the zener was in response to the suggestion of using SEVEN or EIGHT diodes connected in series. Too messy, and too much of a chance that Joe Sixpack would get even ONE diode backwards. Then you'd have a REALLY quiet fan!
End of thread, as far a I'm concerned.
kony - 01 May 2006 05:18 GMT >> Current, not voltage, limiting is the more effective > > way to do this. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > would *really* be interested in your solution of reducing fan speed > of a 12v fan while still giving it 12v. It's not my problem if you can't understand the difference. You'd have to consider how a fan draws current, it is not a steady current draw. Limiting with the resistor does control this better, it is at the core of what voltage limiting vs current limiting, is, regardless of fans.
> >>>Unlikely, you'd be special-ordering them at a price premium because > >>>very few people use them... why would they when a typical 10 cent zener [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > that if the user didn't have the zeners, he isn't likely to have > the Darlingtons. It's pretty simple. It's unlikely most people have the >1W zener, so (excepting you, apparently), they can't make do with parts they already have. Since they have to order online to get these parts, they then have a choice of ANYTHING, and it would be a poor choice to choose that >1W zener when they had the other options at the electronics houses.
Note this is not just my opinion, show us any manufacturer of fan products that uses a single zener (alone) to control fan speed. Is a zener a *secret* part? No, they choose not to use them.
> > Given one of enough current capablity to be called a rheostat, it'd > > work, but is a personal decision and I can only give the reasons why I [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > mounted potentiometer wired as a rheostat makes an excellent fan > speed control. In practice, you're either buying a lab-grade pot at extreme expense if it can handle the current or it's called a rheostat. Not theory here, I mean actually going and buying the thing.
> > - More expensive > > Nonsense. More expensive than what? The cheapest solution to variable > fan speed control available. Many fans now come with a small pot inline! You dont' understand how those work. Fan manufacturers (real manufacturer, not the PC-parts relabeler), include a control wire out from the PCB of the fan to vary the resistance on the circuit board. It is a distinctly different way of doing it as it does not pass the current, only providing bias (in many cases).
You cannot take one of those low (fraction of a) watt pots and use it on a fan as a resistance to the load current, it'll burn up immediately if not a few days later.
> > - I don't need to change the fan speed, it gets set right at first and > > never fiddled with. Fine-tuning down to a dozen RPM one way or the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > when the computer is on, but idling. Soldering ONE pot is certainly > easier than soldering seven or eight diodes. Actually they may assume it but don't really know what they need. A properly designed chassis cooling system can handle full load WITHOUT the fans running at high speed. IMO, it's just silly to reach down and fiddle with a pot and have that higher noise when one can have it quieter and never have to adjust it. You are too consumed with control methods and not enough with fan selection. I actually DO THIS stuff constantly, it works fine to have single speed fan, no overheating even with overclocking. Even so, if it's your box and you want a rheostat, have fun with it even though it's not necessary for cooling or noise reasons unless the system owner made a bad case choice and refuses to correct that mistake instead of trying a work-around.
> > - Another mechanical part subject to failure. Remember my ideal is 50 > > years (even if not really used that long), and it's quite clear that [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > merit. The entire case is a heatsink, though not needed in such a > low power application. You're grasping at straws here. You are clueless, the entire case is not a heatsink.
> > - You need a place to mount it, and it can look a bit ghetto unless > > you have a fancy knob and even then it can look out of place. > > An unused drive bay cover is my usual candidate. Or, if none available > (or if rear mounting is preferred), an expansion slot cover. Those will work, go ahead and do it. It's not necessary though, more expensive and less reliable. Seems the only reason to do it is if prior case or fan choices were poor or if you are just to stubborn to accept that there is a better way.
> > - 100 Ohm can be a bit on the low side. I typically buy > > manufacturers' "low" speed fans to begin with and they may need a > > little higher than 100 ohm, particularly on larger than 80mm fans. > > Low speed fans are not the usual candidates for quieting, are they? yes, why on earth would someone who wants quiet fans, start out by buying a higher speed fan? That would just be silly (Maybe stupid), and offers lower ability to throttle the fan back to lower speed no matter what the control method. In other words, a fan starting out spec'd as low speed will typically run to a lower (reduced through a rheostat or whatever other method) stable (and noiseless, lack of pulsating) speed than one spec'd as a higher speed @12V but then reduced in RPM.
If you don't realize this, I suspect you lack enough fan experience to properly evaluate reduction methods. What you find works acceptibly on one make of fan and one speed, isn't necessarily valid for a different fan make, model or speed. YOur zener idea cuts margins pretty close unless one finds 5W zeners or deals with 'sinking them as mentioned previously. Diodes are more subject to failure with overload than resistors too. So if you have a specific zener or pot and specific fan that work, it might be important to specify these specific parts else it may not work so well.
> Even so, just 50mA still drops 5v across 100 ohms. 100 ohms provides > much better resolution than does a 250 ohm or 500 ohm pot, and is > large enough 99% of the time. You dont' need much better resolution in most cases, merely to be able to hit rougly 10 Ohm near enough to the target. If what you need for very quiet (near if not entirely silent) operation is about 125 Ohms, then 100 Ohms just won't cut it. It is in fact very common to need about 120 (+-10) Ohm with optimal low speed fans from many of the major manufacturers, unless the user wasn't going for such a low speed to begin with and if they aren't going for such a low speed, they might as well just buy that low speed fan to begin with and it might be what they wanted, ie- about 2200 RPM. I aim lower than 2200 RPM though, often under 1000 RPM is possible, particularly with chassis that accept 120mm fans.
> >>It takes me just as long to order 1N4000 series diodes online as it does > >>to order the correct zener. I don't care what random stock you keep. The [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > for the zener. Cute, but apples vs. oranges. Try entering the part > number of the zener. What? That would ruin your test? Nope, because if you kept reading you'd realize they don't have stock at all of the 5W zeners.
So in conclusion, a 5W zener will work but there's no reason to use one over other methods, the best of which being a power resistor if later adjustment isn't necessary.
If adjustment is necessary and you want only a low-power-rated pot, you want that pot in the voltage divider feedback of a (usually integrated) regulator, NOT handling the load current. To handle the load current you will have to spend a lot more for the rheostat or even rarer pot, and it'll likely be wire-wound which has the granularity problem inherant in most cases (else an even more expensive pot type, could easily cost over $20 for that part alone w/o shipping or small order fees, etc).
UCLAN - 01 May 2006 07:38 GMT >>The only way to reduce the current that DC computer case fans draw >>is to reduce the voltage across them. A resistor in series drops [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > is at the core of what voltage limiting vs current limiting, is, > regardless of fans. I understand how a fan draws current just fine. Nice current pulses, usually two pulses per revolution. I designed a amplifier for these pulses that would sound an alarm if the fan stopped. Worked fine. Your resistor just drops a varying amount of voltage depending on the fan being used (different current demands.) The SAME zener can be used with most fans and still provide the same 7v to the fan.
> It's pretty simple. It's unlikely most people have the >1W zener, so > (excepting you, apparently), they can't make do with parts they already > have. It's unlikely most users have ANY parts on hand, let alone the correct value resistor for his fan. A zener doesn't care. You can use the same one on a fan that draws 100mA or on a fan that draws 200mA. Not so with a resistor. Remember, this problem was about quieting an already existing system.
>>Current capability is not a factor in determining if a device is a >>rheostat or a potentiometer. How the terminals of the device are [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > it can handle the current or it's called a rheostat. Not theory here, > I mean actually going and buying the thing. I'm talking definitions here. A three terminal variable resistor is called a potentiometer. As soon as you connect the center terminal (wiper) to one of the end terminals, it becomes a rheostat. Doesn't matter what the current or power rating is. Even a 1/4W pot can be used as a rheostat.
>>>- I don't need to change the fan speed, it gets set right at first and >>>never fiddled with. Fine-tuning down to a dozen RPM one way or the [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > quieter and never have to adjust it. You are too consumed with control > methods and not enough with fan selection. But this thread was about quieting an EXISTING system using the EXISTING fan, not about proper design for cooling and selecting the correct fan.
> I actually DO THIS stuff > constantly, it works fine to have single speed fan, no overheating even > with overclocking. Even so, if it's your box and you want a rheostat, > have fun with it even though it's not necessary for cooling or noise > reasons unless the system owner made a bad case choice and refuses to > correct that mistake instead of trying a work-around. Re-read the above. This is about someone who asks what he can do to quiet his present fan, other than "the 7v Molex reversal" solution (which the OP did.)
>>Horse manure! You want a part that provides 50 years of life in a PC >>that is upgraded every few years? And your thermal issues are without >>merit. The entire case is a heatsink, though not needed in such a >>low power application. You're grasping at straws here. > > You are clueless, the entire case is not a heatsink. If it's metal, and constructed with metal screws, it sure is. You're not using plastic cases, are you? Any heat buildup in the chassis mounted pot will be transfered to the chassis, just as the chassis gets quite warm in the area of the PSU.
> Those will work, go ahead and do it. It's not necessary though, more > expensive and less reliable. Seems the only reason to do it is if > prior case or fan choices were poor or if you are just to stubborn to > accept that there is a better way. Sigh...we're assisting someone who wants to quiet his existing fan by methods other than the connector reversal, remember?
>>Low speed fans are not the usual candidates for quieting, are they? > > yes, why on earth would someone who wants quiet fans, start out by > buying a higher speed fan? [..snip]
Nice essay, but this is about ways to quiet an *existing* noisy higher speed fan, remember? The OP did the "Molex reversal" thing. We started giving him alternatives, remember?
> You dont' need much better resolution in most cases, merely to be able > to hit rougly 10 Ohm near enough to the target. If what you need for [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > often under 1000 RPM is possible, particularly with chassis that accept > 120mm fans. Again, this was about quieting an existing higher RPM fan, not fan selection. But please let me know what fan you are using that draws less than 50mA. 50mA would give a 5v drop on a 100 ohm pot. Any more of a drop would put it in the unreliable startup range when it gets old and dirty.
> So in conclusion, a 5W zener will work but there's no reason to use one > over other methods, the best of which being a power resistor if later > adjustment isn't necessary. What value resistor? The OP likely didn't want to experiment with multiple resistors. The resistor needed for a 100mA fan would be quite different that with a 200mA or 300mA fan. What fan does he have? The 5.1v zener will work with all three fans.
> If adjustment is necessary and you want only a low-power-rated pot, you > want that pot in the voltage divider feedback of a (usually integrated) > regulator, NOT handling the load current. I know of no low power pots that are chassis mount.
> To handle the load current > you will have to spend a lot more for the rheostat or even rarer pot, Any run-of-the-mill chassis mount pot wired as a rheostat works fine.
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