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Hardware Forum / PC Hardware / Overclocking / December 2007Q6600 "safe" temps?
Hey, I'm just OCing and stressing a new build for a mate. Asus P5K-Deluxe WiFi-AP with a G0 Q6600 topped with a Thermaltake Big Typhoon. The case isn't the best in the world for ventilation (Gigabyte 3D Aurora) but it's also not the worst. 1 x 120mm in the front, 2 x 120mm in the back as well as the PSU and 8800GTX exhausting out the back. I have it clocked at 3.2GHz at the moment, (400 x 8) stressing with Prime95 ver. 25.5. It's been running for over an hour now with CPU-Z giving a vcore under load of 1.280V. (These P5K BIOS settings are all over the place, you have to set it, then check in Windows to see how far out it is. It's et to 1.375 in BIOS.) The hottest it's got, in a 20°C room, according to CoreTemp is 68°C. What do you guys (and gals?) think of that? Should I give it to him like that? He's a gamer but I don't think he has any games that would put the load on the cores that Prime does. I had the vcore in BIOS one setting lower and Prime threw up an error. Seems good as it is though. He wants it overclocked, mainly for bragging rights I suspect. He has gamer friends who know jack about OCing. He has a tame OCer in me, and gives me his cast-offs when he upgrades for building his new machines. I got a 7800GT, a 120GB IDE HDD, and IDE LG DVD writer, a Samsung CD writer and his old case (average) for doing this build. It's been a PITA too, he got a bolt-thru kit but not until after I'd already built it. I had to remove the mobo to fit it, then do the screws up with pliers (15° turns at a time, heatpipes everywhere)as the cooler is too big for me to get a screwdriver near the screws. The 8800GTX is a *very* tight fit, extremely tricky to put in and take out. Sorry, I digress. Temps? Ok or not? Also, why does CoreTemp give a Tjunction of 100°C for the Q6600 and "only" 85°C for my E4500? Does that mean it can run hotter? TIA,  SignatureShaun. > The hottest it's got, in a 20°C room, according to CoreTemp is 68°C. > What do you guys (and gals?) think of that? Should I give it to him [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Tjunction of 100°C for the Q6600 and "only" 85°C for my E4500? Does > that mean it can run hotter? What you are seeing is the maximum allowed value of Tjunction, not the actual temperature value. When Tjunction hits approx. 20°C higher than Tcasemax the processor will throttle. ftp://download.intel.com/design/processor/datashts/31559205.pdf "In the event of a catastrophic cooling failure, the processor will automatically shut down when the silicon has reached a temperature approximately 20 °C above the maximum TC. Assertion of THERMTRIP# (Thermal Trip) indicates the processor junction temperature has reached a level beyond where permanent silicon damage may occur. Upon assertion of THERMTRIP#, the processor will shut off its internal clocks (thus, halting program execution) in an attempt to reduce the processor junction temperature." CPUID = 06F7h Tcasemax= 71°C CPUID = 06FBh Tcasemax= 62.2°C http://softwarecommunity.intel.com/ISN/Community/en-US/forums/thread/980465.aspx http://softwarecommunity.intel.com/isn/Community/en-US/forums/thread/30228130.aspx I do not know of any current software which reads a variable Tjunction value. Somewhere on teh interweb Brett Kline typed: >> The hottest it's got, in a 20°C room, according to CoreTemp is 68°C. >> What do you guys (and gals?) think of that? Should I give it to him [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > I do not know of any current software which reads a variable Tjunction > value. <two hours later> Thanks for all the links, my mind just boggled. I fully realised that Tjunction does not change, that it's constant for any given processor. My question, which I was still unable to answer after reading those links (and links) was related to the difference between the Tjunction of the Q6600 (100°C) and the E4500 (85°C). Does this mean that the Q6600 can run hotter than the E4500? I see CoreTemp has the ability to change from displaying current temp to "Delta to Tjunction". The displayed output then says (in my current case) "39C° (sic) to Tjunction remaining". This leads me to believe that Tjunction = maximum temp for that CPU. Hence the question: Why is the Tjunction on the Q6600 15° higher than the E4500? Does that mean that the Q6600 is designed to handle higher temperature? I couldn't find the answer to that in the links you provided. I know, I can Google it, probably in less time that it took reading those links (and links). However I hoped someone here knew the (simple) answer to that question off the top of their head. SignatureThanks, Shaun. > I fully realised that Tjunction does not change, that it's constant > for any given processor. My question, which I was still unable to > answer after reading those links (and links) was related to the > difference between the Tjunction of the Q6600 (100°C) and the E4500 > (85°C). Does this mean that the Q6600 can run hotter than the E4500? The Q6600 G0 and the E4500 M0 can be ran to 73°C. The Q6600 B3 stepping can be ran to 63°C. Versions of Core Temp prior to .95.4 read Tjunction of the Q6600 as 85°C. Version 95.4 reads it as 100°C. The simple answer is don't concern yourself with Tjunction at all. Keep Tcase as low as you can; stress test, and ship it out. Any C2D will throttle or simply halt before damage is done. Somewhere on teh interweb Brett Kline typed: >> I fully realised that Tjunction does not change, that it's constant >> for any given processor. My question, which I was still unable to [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Keep Tcase as low as you can; stress test, and ship it out. Any C2D > will throttle or simply halt before damage is done. Thanks for that Brett. I realise that it'll throttle before damage occurs but I think it'd be better to have a slower CPU speed with no throttling than a faster one that throttles? Questions upon questions. ;-) Cheers, SignatureShaun. > Somewhere on teh interweb Brett Kline typed: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > "Delta to Tjunction". The displayed output then says (in my current case) > "39C° (sic) to Tjunction remaining". Actually, Tjunction DOES change, since it's actually the name for the temperature at the hottest part of each core (hence each core has a Tjunction). As I understand it, what CoreTemp incorrectly reports as "Tjunction" is actually "Tjunctionmax" (or however they are written) - it is NOT Tjunction! :) Somewhere on teh interweb gg@nabudis.com typed: >> Somewhere on teh interweb Brett Kline typed: >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > "Tjunction" is actually "Tjunctionmax" (or however they are written) - > it is NOT Tjunction! :) Now *that* makes sense. I gave up on finding the low-down on this after getting bogged down in increasingly complex documentation. Your explaination seems to fit with what little I could understand. <g> So, next question; Why does the Q6600 (and the 420 Celeron Core 2 Solo I have) have a Tjunctionmax of 100°C (according to CoreTemp) while my E4500 "only" has a Tjunctionmax of 85°C? I thought they were all made of the same stuff. Not that it affects me currently. My E4500@3.3GHz is happliy idling at ambient +5°C right now. (29/30°C) SignatureCheers, Shaun. > I have it clocked at 3.2GHz at the moment, (400 x 8) stressing with Prime95 > ver. 25.5. It's been running for over an hour now with CPU-Z giving a vcore under load of 1.280V. (These P5K BIOS [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > cores that Prime does. I had the vcore in BIOS one setting lower and Prime threw up an error. Seems good as it is > though. FWIW, those are the temperatures I saw at 3.2 GHz with identical vCore. : ~misfit~ wrote: : > I have it clocked at 3.2GHz at the moment, (400 x 8) stressing with Prime95 : > ver. 25.5. It's been running for over an hour now with CPU-Z giving a vcore under load of 1.280V. (These P5K BIOS : > settings are all over the place, you have to set it, then check in Windows to see how far out it is. It's et to 1.375 : > in BIOS.) : > : > The hottest it's got, in a 20°C room, according to CoreTemp is 68°C. What do you guys (and gals?) think of that? : > Should I give it to him like that? He's a gamer but I don't think he has any games that would put the load on the : > cores that Prime does. I had the vcore in BIOS one setting lower and Prime threw up an error. Seems good as it is : > though. : : FWIW, those are the temperatures I saw at 3.2 GHz with identical vCore. : : I'd be thrilled with those temps. I was up around 75 at that clock but I needed more vcore for stability (39C inside the case) Somewhere on teh interweb Howard Goldstein typed: >>> I have it clocked at 3.2GHz at the moment, (400 x 8) stressing with >>> Prime95 [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > I'd be thrilled with those temps. I was up around 75 at that clock > but I needed more vcore for stability (39C inside the case) His case temp is around the same, (although I don't know where the thermistor is that reads it). I've advised him to get a 120mm cut-out above the Big Typhoon 120mm fan and fit a case fan to feed the cooler with ambient temp air. That shoud decrease core temps maybe 10°C. Whether he does it or not remains to be seen. SignatureCheers, Shaun. : Somewhere on teh interweb Howard Goldstein typed: : > On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 17:18:22 GMT, Fishface <invalid@ddress.ok?> wrote: : >>> I have it clocked at 3.2GHz at the moment, (400 x 8) stressing with : >>> Prime95 : >>> ver. 25.5. It's been running for over an hour now with CPU-Z giving : >>> a vcore under load of 1.280V. (These P5K BIOS settings are all over : >>> the place, you have to set it, then check in Windows to see how far : >>> out it is. It's et to 1.375 in BIOS.) : >>> : >>> The hottest it's got, in a 20°C room, according to CoreTemp is : >>> 68°C. What do you guys (and gals?) think of that? Should I give it : >>> to him like that? He's a gamer but I don't think he has any games : >>> that would put the load on the cores that Prime does. I had the : >>> vcore in BIOS one setting lower and Prime threw up an error. Seems : >>> good as it is though. : >> : >> FWIW, those are the temperatures I saw at 3.2 GHz with identical : >> vCore. : > : > I'd be thrilled with those temps. I was up around 75 at that clock : > but I needed more vcore for stability (39C inside the case) : : His case temp is around the same, (although I don't know where the : thermistor is that reads it). I've advised him to get a 120mm cut-out above : the Big Typhoon 120mm fan and fit a case fan to feed the cooler with ambient : temp air. That shoud decrease core temps maybe 10°C. Whether he does it or : not remains to be seen. That's great advice. None of us should have that much heat in the box. I'm still trying to find the magic bullet that'll ventilate this quiet Antec P182 case without whoooshing me away with noise, but it's not working still >10C over ambient. Must be airflow? Any advice on forming baffles to help direct internal airflow? There's 100CFM actively sucked out and 50CFM actively pushed in. 'Howard Goldstein' wrote, in part; | That's great advice. None of us should have that much heat in the box. | I'm still trying to find the magic bullet that'll ventilate this quiet [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] | Any advice on forming baffles to help direct internal airflow? | There's 100CFM actively sucked out and 50CFM actively pushed in. _____ Baffles, we don' need no stinking baffles. Try reversing the fan functions; have the 100 CFM fan blowing in, the 50 CFM fan blowing out. This will have the added advantage of allowing you to filter all the air since the case will operate at a slightly positive air pressure. This one change may or may not help the inside case ambient temperature, but it will keep dust out. Also get a digital thermometer with a remote probe (RadioShack, less than $20 US, maybe less than $10 US on sale) to measure temperatures in various locations inside the case, as well as the temperature of the air leaving the case. Phil Weldon | : Somewhere on teh interweb Howard Goldstein typed: | : >>> I have it clocked at 3.2GHz at the moment, (400 x 8) stressing with [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] | Any advice on forming baffles to help direct internal airflow? | There's 100CFM actively sucked out and 50CFM actively pushed in. : 'Howard Goldstein' wrote, in part; : | That's great advice. None of us should have that much heat in the box. : | I'm still trying to find the magic bullet that'll ventilate this quiet : | Antec P182 case without whoooshing me away with noise, but it's not : | working still >10C over ambient. Must be airflow? : | : | Any advice on forming baffles to help direct internal airflow? : | There's 100CFM actively sucked out and 50CFM actively pushed in. : _____ : : Baffles, we don' need no stinking baffles. : : Try reversing the fan functions; have the 100 CFM fan blowing in, the 50 CFM : fan blowing out. This will have the added advantage of allowing you to : filter all the air since the case will operate at a slightly positive air : pressure. This one change may or may not help the inside case ambient : temperature, but it will keep dust out. I'll try that - thank you. RIght now I have the two at the corner of the case near the CPU exhausting. I'll turn the one on the rear and the one by the old hot IDE drive up front around but leave the top fan exhausting, then try the other permutations to see what works best. : : Also get a digital thermometer with a remote probe (RadioShack, less than : $20 US, maybe less than $10 US on sale) to measure temperatures in various : locations inside the case, as well as the temperature of the air leaving the : case. I can do this with the 4 sensors on the drive bay thingie. You still happy with your non-contact thermometer? 'Howard Goldstein' wrote, in part: | I can do this with the 4 sensors on the drive bay thingie. | You still happy with your non-contact thermometer? _____ Very happy with the non-contact thermometer; especially the price! Phil Weldon | : 'Howard Goldstein' wrote, in part; | : | That's great advice. None of us should have that much heat in the box. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] | | I can do this with the 4 sensors on the drive bay thingie. You still happy with your non-contact thermometer? Somewhere on teh interweb Howard Goldstein typed: >> 'Howard Goldstein' wrote, in part; >>> That's great advice. None of us should have that much heat in the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> >> Baffles, we don' need no stinking baffles. I agree. I'm a proponent of the "more power" and intelligent design philosophies when it comes to case cooling. Go with the thermal syphon, use it to your advantage and try to have at least slightly more air being pulled into the case than is being pushed out. Bottom front and top back respectively. Or just bottom and top, as long as HDD/s are cooled. Bafles no. However, I do, on occasion use ducts to feed anbient temp air directly to the CPU cooler* fan. >> Try reversing the fan functions; have the 100 CFM fan blowing in, >> the 50 CFM fan blowing out. This will have the added advantage of >> allowing you to filter all the air since the case will operate at a >> slightly positive air pressure. This one change may or may not >> help the inside case ambient temperature, but it will keep dust out. This would have been exactly my advice. Good job I read other replies (sometimes) huh? :-) > I'll try that - thank you. RIght now I have the two at the corner of > the case near the CPU exhausting. I'll turn the one on the rear and > the one by the old hot IDE drive up front around but leave the top fan > exhausting, then try the other permutations to see what works best. No no no. Put the 100CFM fan in the front bottom pulling air in and the 50CFM one at the back exhausting (along with the PSU fan I take it?). That way you're not fighting the natural tendancy of hot air rising, you're working with it. You get two instant benefits, one is positive case pressure, (if the PSU fan is less than 50CFM) meaning that dust doesn't get sucked into optical/floppy drives etc. The other (and don't laugh!) is that, with positive case pressure, you have a slightly higher pressure inside the case. Higher pressure means more molecules per square foot. As the "air molecules" are what are removing your heat, this is a good thing. Ok, it's not as molecule-dense as liquid cooling and it might only be fractionally better than normal air pressure but every little helps. *I have to consciously not write "heatsink" these days when refering to the device that cools the CPU. Absolutely nothing about my 6 heatpipe, passive phase-change, all copper Tt Mini Typhoon can be classified as a "heatsink". It is a heat transfer system, and an excellent one at that (as I found out when I took to the base with an angle grinder while my mate held it by the fin area, then complained it was too hot to hold after 20 seconds). So I have to keep reminding myself to call it a "cooler" rather than a "heatsink" or "HSF". Actually, thinking about it, the term "heatsink" shouldn't have been used at all once fans were fitted to the cooling device. Unless you call "sinking" the heat into air heatsinking. Ok, bye now. :-) SignatureShaun. : Somewhere on teh interweb Howard Goldstein typed: : > On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 10:19:58 -0500, Phil Weldon : > <not.disclosed@example.com> wrote: : >> 'Howard Goldstein' wrote, in part; : >>> That's great advice. None of us should have that much heat in the : >>> box. I'm still trying to find the magic bullet that'll ventilate : >>> this quiet Antec P182 case without whoooshing me away with noise, : >>> but it's not working still >10C over ambient. Must be airflow? : >>> : >>> Any advice on forming baffles to help direct internal airflow? : >>> There's 100CFM actively sucked out and 50CFM actively pushed in. : >> _____ : >> : >> Baffles, we don' need no stinking baffles. : : I agree. I'm a proponent of the "more power" and intelligent design : philosophies when it comes to case cooling. Go with the thermal syphon, use : it to your advantage and try to have at least slightly more air being pulled : into the case than is being pushed out. Bottom front and top back : respectively. Or just bottom and top, as long as HDD/s are cooled. : : Bafles no. However, I do, on occasion use ducts to feed anbient temp air : directly to the CPU cooler* fan. Ductwork is what I meant to write. You'd commended that to me to try out, too, I didn't forget. I really really wanna avoid taking a cutter to the side panel but I'm getting desperate. : : >> Try reversing the fan functions; have the 100 CFM fan blowing in, : >> the 50 CFM fan blowing out. This will have the added advantage of : >> allowing you to filter all the air since the case will operate at a : >> slightly positive air pressure. This one change may or may not : >> help the inside case ambient temperature, but it will keep dust out. : : This would have been exactly my advice. Good job I read other replies : (sometimes) huh? :-) : : > I'll try that - thank you. RIght now I have the two at the corner of : > the case near the CPU exhausting. I'll turn the one on the rear and : > the one by the old hot IDE drive up front around but leave the top fan : > exhausting, then try the other permutations to see what works best. : : No no no. Put the 100CFM fan in the front bottom pulling air in and the : 50CFM one at the back exhausting (along with the PSU fan I take it?). That : way you're not fighting the natural tendancy of hot air rising, you're : working with it. You get two instant benefits, one is positive case : pressure, (if the PSU fan is less than 50CFM) meaning that dust doesn't get : sucked into optical/floppy drives etc. The other (and don't laugh!) is that, : with positive case pressure, you have a slightly higher pressure inside the : case. Higher pressure means more molecules per square foot. As the "air : molecules" are what are removing your heat, this is a good thing. Ok, it's : not as molecule-dense as liquid cooling and it might only be fractionally : better than normal air pressure but every little helps. I accidentally confused things here. It's 100cfm between two 50cfm fans soon to be turned into suckers like their owner, and one 50 blowing in who I'm going to work very hard to exhaustion. The case itself has some pretty large vents. The 50 blowing in has the screen filter that comes with the Antec case (this is the puppy here: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129025&Tpk=p182 I would not recommend this case except for use in a suit's office, and then only with the rebate) We stopped smoking indoors around 20 years ago but the dust is just incredible anyway, maybe from all the fires. I don't have any other screening material to use on the newly-minted suckers so I'll have to steal a pair of Mrs's hose and hope she doesn't notice. I *will* report back on the difference here. : : *I have to consciously not write "heatsink" these days when refering to the : device that cools the CPU. Absolutely nothing about my 6 heatpipe, passive : phase-change, all copper Tt Mini Typhoon can be classified as a "heatsink". : It is a heat transfer system, and an excellent one at that (as I found out : when I took to the base with an angle grinder while my mate held it by the : fin area, then complained it was too hot to hold after 20 seconds). So I : have to keep reminding myself to call it a "cooler" rather than a "heatsink" : or "HSF". : : Actually, thinking about it, the term "heatsink" shouldn't have been used at : all once fans were fitted to the cooling device. Unless you call "sinking" : the heat into air heatsinking. : : Ok, bye now. :-) Dude, I'm still having issues thinking in this centigrade scale. For me "Coolers" instead of "Heatsinks" is too much envelope expansion to deal with :( Oh but I'll throw in a good word for Tt's power supply. The 750w toughpower with the rebate has been rock solid. A cable mgmnt nightmare but trouble free. 'Howard Goldstein' wrote, in part: | I accidentally confused things here. It's 100cfm between two 50cfm | fans soon to be turned into suckers like their owner, and one 50 [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] | I would not recommend this case except for use in a suit's office, and | then only with the rebate) _____ No, no, no. TWO fans blowing IN, ONE blowing OUT (remember the power supply fan is already blowing out too.) Otherwise no positive pressure, rather a negative pressure and you can't keep dust out. If your case geometry is such that you can't put two fans in the case front and one in the rear, then you really, really DO need to cut a hole in the side panel and install a slow 120 mm fan. It is not hard at all to cut a whole in a steel or aluminum side panel. You can get a 'nibbler' from RadioShack for ~ $10 US. Then all you need to do is draw a 120 mm diameter circle on the panel, drill a 3/8" hole on the edge of the circle, insert the nibbler, then slowly chew your way around the circle. Twenty minutes work to cut the circle. Smooth the edges with a rattail file. Drill four mounting holes for the fan. Install a filter frame on the outside of the panel and the fan on the inside. The square filter frame will completely cover the edge of the circular cut, so any imperfections will be hidden. Use a long power cable on the fan so that you can plug it in with the panel open. So, power hand drill, 3.8" bit (for starter hole), 3/16" bit for screw holes, nibbler, and rattail file. An hour or so should see you through. You may need an extension 12 v cable for power. Phil Weldon | : Somewhere on teh interweb Howard Goldstein typed: | : >> 'Howard Goldstein' wrote, in part; [quoted text clipped - 87 lines] | toughpower with the rebate has been rock solid. A cable mgmnt | nightmare but trouble free. > It is not hard at all to cut a whole in a steel or aluminum side panel. Would you really cut a hole in this thing?! http://www.silentpcreview.com/article741-page1.html Cutting a hole in the side would definitely let more inside noise out. And it's a layer of stainless, plastic, and aluminum! Stainless can be pretty tough. My RS nibbler broke long ago, and I never bought another. >> It is not hard at all to cut a whole in a steel or aluminum side panel. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > pretty tough. My RS nibbler broke long ago, and I never bought > another. I have one of those myself, liquid cooled though. I reversed the top fan to blow into the case instead of out and set the speed to medium (middle of the three settings). It helped cooling all-round. I needed just a bit more cool air to the radiator (where your rear 120mm fan is). This also helped get some more air to the NB and SB of the Striker Extreme and keeps the heatpipe fins nice and cool. In the top chamber, the only exhaust fan is the 120mm radiator fan set on high, with two 120mm fans blowing in for slight positive pressure and a bit less dust in the case. Ed Somewhere on teh interweb Ed Medlin typed: >>> It is not hard at all to cut a whole in a steel or aluminum side >>> panel. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > with two 120mm fans blowing in for slight positive pressure and a bit > less dust in the case. Not about Antec cases but since I've been more active in this group, (since I finally got some reasonably modern hardware again) I've been itching to try out liquid cooling. However, I might have to wait until I get a quad. With the E4500 @ 413 x 8 = 3.3GHz Tt Mini Typhoon combo running at 100% load only reaching 20°C above case temp it's hard to justify liquid cooling at the moment. Somwhere on one of my sojourns on teh interweb I saw a nifty-looking waterblock/pump in one system that was reasonably priced. It's simplicity appealed to me (not to mention it's price compared with other systems). I've seen expensive (at least by my standards) systems reviewed that perform poorly. I'd be gutted to spend the next couple month's food money on a liquid cooling system only to be disappointed. Sorry, it's probably all been said before but I have a habit of skipping over stuff that doesn't apply to me (at the time). What liquid cooling system do you have Ed? Are you happy with it? Anyone else? TIA. :-) SignatureTTFN, Shaun. > Somewhere on teh interweb Ed Medlin typed: >>> [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > TIA. :-) All Swiftech stuff. Actually this case is marketed by Swiftech as the Quiet Power with everything you need to cool the CPU. If you want to do NB, SB or video cards, you need to get the waterblocks for those. Swiftech is well known and has been making liquid cooling components for many years. Ed Somewhere on teh interweb Ed Medlin typed: >> Somewhere on teh interweb Ed Medlin typed: >>>> [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > Swiftech is well known and has been making liquid cooling components > for many years. Yep, on further looking I see that it was Swiftech that I briefly considered before budget constraints bought me down to earth and dictated I go with air. In particular I "looked at" (not physically) the Apogee Drive 350 http://www.swiftech.com/products/ApogeeDrive.asp either using an automotive heater radiator (to reduce costs) or this complete kit: http://www.swiftech.com/products/H20-120-COMPACT.asp I'd beinterested to hear from anyone who's tried the 'drive 350' or the whole 'compact' system, especially if they've gone from reasonably good air cooling to that system. With the quiet 25cm fan on the side of my case I wouldn't bother with chipset/VGA cooling, it's just the CPU I'd be concerned with although, as I say, the current system is doing more than adequately on air. Cheers, SignatureShaun. Somewhere on teh interweb ~misfit~ typed: > Yep, on further looking I see that it was Swiftech that I briefly > considered before budget constraints bought me down to earth and [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > it's just the CPU I'd be concerned with although, as I say, the > current system is doing more than adequately on air. Hmm, that's not so good. I used the calculator on the second page, entered current data from my system after checking ambient against the wall themometer, ran Orthos and the calculator, with the fan set on 7V/25Db (which would make it close to the noisiest thing 'in' my system) and the result was 57.7°C. With the Tt Mini Typhoon the actual core temps (CoreTemp) were 49/51°C. According to the Javascript calculator, even with the fan set on 12V/35Db the core temp would be 55.6°. Either something is rotten (in the state of Denmark) with the Java applet or this 25cm fan cooled case I have negates and advantage for C2*D*s and liquid cooling. Maybe a different story with a quad, pumping out twice the heat. SignatureTTFN, Shaun. | Would you really cut a hole in this thing?! | http://www.silentpcreview.com/article741-page1.html | Cutting a hole in the side would definitely let more inside noise out. | And it's a layer of stainless, plastic, and aluminum! Stainless can be | pretty tough. My RS nibbler broke long ago, and I never bought | another. Well, if I HAD bought one, and then had a temperature problem, I would cut a hole. But then I've always opted for BIG cases and good cooling over quiet operation and good looks. There is an alternative to the nibbler. A 4.5" Greenlee Chassis punch would do a fast job with good results. But you'd probably want to rent one find a shop to do it for you the 4.5" punch costs ~ $500 US B^) But the fan layout for the Antec P182 seems pretty good for cooling; IF the front panel 120 mm fan blows in across the display adapter/chipset area, the 120 mm fan in the top of the case blows in over the CPU heatsink fins, and the rear panel 120mm fan exhausts from directly behind the CPU heatsink. If 'Howard Goldstein' sets up the front panel 120 mm fan to blow in, the top panel 120 mm fan to blow in, and the rear 120 mm fan to blow out he should get pretty good results. If not, I think the next step would be to measure air temperatures at various locations in the case to find out what may be wrong with the air flow paths, rather than to cut a hole for a fourth case fan. I've had my Enlight EN-8950 cases (17" X 25.5" X 7.5) for years now; I just keep refilling them (Celeron 533a, Pentium III, Pentium 4, Core 2.) I can put two 120 mm fans in the front panel blowing across the hard drives and two 80 mm fans in the rear panel in the stock case. The side 120 mm fan I nibbled a hole for is (with my current ThermalTake i7 heatsink fan) mainly for blowing air into the memory slot/chipset/1st PCI-E x16 slot. If I had started with a SLI capable system I would have placed the side fan lower to supply air mainly to the peripheral slot area. I leave the unpopulated slot back panel openings uncovered and have remove the surround at the rear panel connector set. As for anti-noise treatment, I recently lined the inside surfaces of the case with some 1/8 heavy rubber foam sheets. And have tried hard drive side mounted heatsink 3.5" to 5.25" adapters that isolated the drives from the frame with large rubber blocks (no metal-to metal contact between the hard drives and the frame at all.) The noise isn't a problem to me at all unless I turn up the front fan speed. The nVidia chipset fan produces the most noise, and it is pretty well buried in the middle of the case. The nine 5.25" / one 3.5" drive bay Enlight EN-8950 isn't a pretty case, but the price is right, ~ $100 US with no power supply. I sprayed one hammertone fire engine red, the other hammertone racing green. Phil Weldon | > It is not hard at all to cut a whole in a steel or aluminum side panel. | [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] | pretty tough. My RS nibbler broke long ago, and I never bought | another. : 'Howard Goldstein' sets up the front panel 120 mm fan to blow in, the top Dude, that's my real name :( Believe you me I would not have selected that name. Parents: Do not name your child Howard. Too many nasty rhymes and permutations are possible. And now that I've planted that seed in everyone's thoughts for today I'll probably want to avoid this thread. | Dude, that's my real name :( Believe you me I would not have selected | that name. Parents: Do not name your child Howard. Too many nasty | rhymes and permutations are possible. And now that I've planted that | seed in everyone's thoughts for today I'll probably want to avoid this | thread. _____ I always put the "From:" name in single quotes when I post to Usenet; to show that I am referring to a poster, perhaps even in a different thread. And guess why I go by my middle name B^) Phil Weldon | : 'Howard Goldstein' sets up the front panel 120 mm fan to blow in, the top | [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] | seed in everyone's thoughts for today I'll probably want to avoid this | thread. : 'Howard Goldstein' wrote, in part: : | I accidentally confused things here. It's 100cfm between two 50cfm : | fans soon to be turned into suckers like their owner, and one 50 : | blowing in who I'm going to work very hard to exhaustion. The case : | itself has some pretty large vents. : | : | The 50 blowing in has the screen filter that comes with the Antec case : | (this is the puppy here: : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129025&Tpk=p182 : | I would not recommend this case except for use in a suit's office, and : | then only with the rebate) : _____ : : No, no, no. TWO fans blowing IN, ONE blowing OUT (remember the power supply : fan is already blowing out too.) Otherwise no positive pressure, rather a : negative pressure and you can't keep dust out. If your case geometry is : such that you can't put two fans in the case front and one in the rear, then : you really, really DO need to cut a hole in the side panel and install a : slow 120 mm fan. I now have two in, one out. The side panel is a no go with this case so I'm screwed. I need to try a few other configurations. It was the front in, the two back ones out. I turned the one on the rear around and temps are up 3 degrees on the CPU and 4 on the motherboard, which was easy to do but probably just set it up so that one fan was blowing about 3" of cool air to the exhaust and everything else stagnating . Next up is to swap the front one so it's sucking and : : It is not hard at all to cut a whole in a steel or aluminum side panel. You : can get a 'nibbler' from RadioShack for ~ $10 US. Then all you need to do : is draw a 120 mm diameter circle on the panel, drill a 3/8" hole on the edge : of the circle, insert the nibbler, then slowly chew your way around the : circle. Twenty minutes work to cut the circle. Smooth the edges with a : rattail file. Drill four mounting holes for the fan. Install a filter : frame on the outside of the panel and the fan on the inside. The square : filter frame will completely cover the edge of the circular cut, so any : imperfections will be hidden. Use a long power cable on the fan so that you : can plug it in with the panel open. So, power hand drill, 3.8" bit (for : starter hole), 3/16" bit for screw holes, nibbler, and rattail file. An : hour or so should see you through. You may need an extension 12 v cable for : power. : : Phil Weldon : "Howard Goldstein" <hgoldste@mpcs.com> wrote in message : news:1197132315.76736@news.queue.to... : | On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 13:35:52 +1300, ~misfit~ <misfit61nz@yahoot.com.au> : wrote: : | : Somewhere on teh interweb Howard Goldstein typed: : | : > On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 10:19:58 -0500, Phil Weldon : | : > <not.disclosed@example.com> wrote: : | : >> 'Howard Goldstein' wrote, in part; : | : >>> That's great advice. None of us should have that much heat in the : | : >>> box. I'm still trying to find the magic bullet that'll ventilate : | : >>> this quiet Antec P182 case without whoooshing me away with noise, : | : >>> but it's not working still >10C over ambient. Must be airflow? : | : >>> : | : >>> Any advice on forming baffles to help direct internal airflow? : | : >>> There's 100CFM actively sucked out and 50CFM actively pushed in. : | : >> _____ : | : >> : | : >> Baffles, we don' need no stinking baffles. : | : : | : I agree. I'm a proponent of the "more power" and intelligent design : | : philosophies when it comes to case cooling. Go with the thermal syphon, : use : | : it to your advantage and try to have at least slightly more air being : pulled : | : into the case than is being pushed out. Bottom front and top back : | : respectively. Or just bottom and top, as long as HDD/s are cooled. : | : : | : Bafles no. However, I do, on occasion use ducts to feed anbient temp : air : | : directly to the CPU cooler* fan. : | : | Ductwork is what I meant to write. You'd commended that to me to try : | out, too, I didn't forget. I really really wanna avoid taking a : | cutter to the side panel but I'm getting desperate. : | : | : : | : >> Try reversing the fan functions; have the 100 CFM fan blowing in, : | : >> the 50 CFM fan blowing out. This will have the added advantage of : | : >> allowing you to filter all the air since the case will operate at a : | : >> slightly positive air pressure. This one change may or may not : | : >> help the inside case ambient temperature, but it will keep dust out. : | : : | : This would have been exactly my advice. Good job I read other replies : | : (sometimes) huh? :-) : | : : | : > I'll try that - thank you. RIght now I have the two at the corner of : | : > the case near the CPU exhausting. I'll turn the one on the rear and : | : > the one by the old hot IDE drive up front around but leave the top fan : | : > exhausting, then try the other permutations to see what works best. : | : : | : No no no. Put the 100CFM fan in the front bottom pulling air in and the : | : 50CFM one at the back exhausting (along with the PSU fan I take it?). : That : | : way you're not fighting the natural tendancy of hot air rising, you're : | : working with it. You get two instant benefits, one is positive case : | : pressure, (if the PSU fan is less than 50CFM) meaning that dust doesn't : get : | : sucked into optical/floppy drives etc. The other (and don't laugh!) is : that, : | : with positive case pressure, you have a slightly higher pressure inside : the : | : case. Higher pressure means more molecules per square foot. As the "air : | : molecules" are what are removing your heat, this is a good thing. Ok, : it's : | : not as molecule-dense as liquid cooling and it might only be : fractionally : | : better than normal air pressure but every little helps. : | : | I accidentally confused things here. It's 100cfm between two 50cfm : | fans soon to be turned into suckers like their owner, and one 50 : | blowing in who I'm going to work very hard to exhaustion. The case : | itself has some pretty large vents. : | : | The 50 blowing in has the screen filter that comes with the Antec case : | (this is the puppy here: : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129025&Tpk=p182 : | I would not recommend this case except for use in a suit's office, and : | then only with the rebate) : | : | We stopped smoking indoors around 20 years ago but the dust is just : | incredible anyway, maybe from all the fires. I don't have any other : | screening material to use on the newly-minted suckers so I'll have to : | steal a pair of Mrs's hose and hope she doesn't notice. : | : | I *will* report back on the difference here. : | : | : : | : *I have to consciously not write "heatsink" these days when refering to : the : | : device that cools the CPU. Absolutely nothing about my 6 heatpipe, : passive : | : phase-change, all copper Tt Mini Typhoon can be classified as a : "heatsink". : | : It is a heat transfer system, and an excellent one at that (as I found : out : | : when I took to the base with an angle grinder while my mate held it by : the : | : fin area, then complained it was too hot to hold after 20 seconds). So : I : | : have to keep reminding myself to call it a "cooler" rather than a : "heatsink" : | : or "HSF". : | : : | : Actually, thinking about it, the term "heatsink" shouldn't have been : used at : | : all once fans were fitted to the cooling device. Unless you call : "sinking" : | : the heat into air heatsinking. : | : : | : Ok, bye now. :-) : | : | Dude, I'm still having issues thinking in this centigrade scale. : | For me "Coolers" instead of "Heatsinks" is too much envelope expansion : | to deal with :( : | : | Oh but I'll throw in a good word for Tt's power supply. The 750w : | toughpower with the rebate has been rock solid. A cable mgmnt : | nightmare but trouble free. : : 'Howard Goldstein' wrote, in part: | I now have two in, one out. The side panel is a no go with this case | so I'm screwed. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] | cool air to the exhaust and everything else stagnating . Next up is | to swap the front one so it's sucking and _____ I see, after looking more carefully at the Antec P182 review, that all three case fans are 120 mm. I'd think that with the front fan blowing into the case, the top fan blowing into the case, and the exhaust fan blowing out of the case you would get reasonable temperatures. I'd check the air temperatures within the case at various points. The temperature reported by the BIOS and whatever system health utility you have is from a thermistor mounted on the motherboard. This temperature can vary widely depending on exactly where it is located. If it is near the DC-DC converter/regulators for the CPU, then that temperature will be much higher than if the thermistor is located at any other location. Phil Weldon | : 'Howard Goldstein' wrote, in part: | : | I accidentally confused things here. It's 100cfm between two 50cfm [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] | : | The 50 blowing in has the screen filter that comes with the Antec case | : | (this is the puppy here: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129025&Tpk=p182 | : | I would not recommend this case except for use in a suit's office, and | : | then only with the rebate) : 'Howard Goldstein' wrote, in part: : | I now have two in, one out. The side panel is a no go with this case : | so I'm screwed. : | : | I need to try a few other configurations. It was the front in, the : | two back ones out. I turned the one on the rear around and temps are : | up 3 degrees on the CPU and 4 on the motherboard, which was easy to do : | but probably just set it up so that one fan was blowing about 3" of : | cool air to the exhaust and everything else stagnating . Next up is : | to swap the front one so it's sucking and : _____ : : I see, after looking more carefully at the Antec P182 review, that all three : case fans are 120 mm. I'd think that with the front fan blowing into the : case, the top fan blowing into the case, and the exhaust fan blowing out of : the case you would get reasonable temperatures. This configuration worked the best so far, beating the stock configuration (the runner up) by 2C. That top fan is now blowing straight onto the cooler fan input. Next up is to pull the top fan all together and duct the cooler fan directly to to the large through hole up top. : I'd check the air : temperatures within the case at various points. The temperature reported by : the BIOS and whatever system health utility you have is from a thermistor : mounted on the motherboard. This temperature can vary widely depending on : exactly where it is located. If it is near the DC-DC converter/regulators : for the CPU, then that temperature will be much higher than if the : thermistor is located at any other location. I haven't measured everywhere else yet. The who-knows-where-it-is motherboard sensor is 2C warmer but that's only 42C. I thought I had good circulation in there, I have an 80mm blowing off the a large northbridge cooler onto a large SB cooler, but I guess I don't since it's warmer. I'll report back when I add the ductwork. Somewhere on teh interweb Howard Goldstein typed: > On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 13:35:52 +1300, ~misfit~ <snip> >> Bafles no. However, I do, on occasion use ducts to feed anbient >> temp air directly to the CPU cooler* fan. > > Ductwork is what I meant to write. You'd commended that to me to try > out, too, I didn't forget. I really really wanna avoid taking a > cutter to the side panel but I'm getting desperate. I don't blame you for getting deperate. See my comments below. > (this is the puppy here: > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129025&Tpk=p182 > I would not recommend this case except for use in a suit's office, > and > then only with the rebate) Wow! Now I see what you're working with. I'm sorry Howard but I have to agree with you, that case is a terrible design for an overclocker. Maybe fine for a Core 2 Solo Celeron in, as you say, "a suit's office". Maybe even one of the slower, cooler C2Ds. However, from a thermal management viewpoint, that case is a nightmare. Who designs these things? As my grandmother would say, "It's all shirt and no trousers". I can see that it's not going to be as easy as Phil and I thought for you to chew a hole in the side. However, from looking at it, it's the only way that you're ever going to get it to perform reasonably. Yeah, it'll be noisier. However, as I think I've said to you before, "quiet" and "overclocked" aren't good bed-fellows. <shakes head> I still can't get over the crazy design of that case. It *might* be fine for a CPU with a TDP of 35W running in an air conditioned office but otherwise it is, IMO, rubbish. (Sorry) I'd always thought Antec were quite good going by peripheral noises that I've heard about them. However, after seeing that and studying the airflow characteristics, I'm glad I've never bought one and wouldn't thank you for one. (If I was forced to build a system in it the first thing I'd do is make sure I have an efficient CPU cooler that blows towards the mobo, then cut the side to incorporate a fan the lines up with, and is ducted to the CPU fan) Good luck with trying to get it to get any performance out of it without cutting. I still can't get over it. It looks like it was designed by the marketing branch rather than a (knowledgeable) design team. Cheers, SignatureShaun. > Somewhere on teh interweb Howard Goldstein typed: >> On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 13:35:52 +1300, ~misfit~ [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > Cheers, The P182 is reviewed here. http://www.silentpcreview.com/article741-page1.html Paul Somewhere on teh interweb Paul typed: >> Somewhere on teh interweb Howard Goldstein typed: >>> On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 13:35:52 +1300, ~misfit~ [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > > http://www.silentpcreview.com/article741-page1.html Hmmm, yeah I read it earlier. Call me a cynic but when a review site thanks the company for the item they've just reviewed (glowingly), when they rely on advertising and/or people reading their site for income/jobs, then I take it with a pinch of salt. When Antec appears first on the list of the site's "sponsors" then I throw the review out completely as being biased and self-serving. Add to that I've built a sh.t-load of hot systems and can pick a good case for cooling by looking at the fans and their positions, coupled with Howard's experience that it gets damn hot.... In words of Silent PC Review: "Help support this site, buy from one of our affiliate retailers!" Sales-pitch dressed as objective review. At least they don't hide the fact *too* much. SignatureCheers, Shaun. > Hmmm, yeah I read it earlier. > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Sales-pitch dressed as objective review. At least they don't hide the fact > *too* much. I have one myself Shaun and it is really a pretty nice case once you get used to the nuances.......:-). With 3 120mm 3-speed fans just in the top chamber there are a lot of choices on how to arrange them for the best airflow, and you don't have the PSU to worry about. It is a very roomy case and extremely quiet. Mine is watercooled with all the components on the inside with room to spare. The basic design started with the P180 and has developed into one of the most popular performance cases in the world. Swiftech uses them for their self contained liquid cooled Quiet Power cases too. Ed Somewhere on teh interweb Ed Medlin typed: >> Hmmm, yeah I read it earlier. >> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > performance cases in the world. Swiftech uses them for their self > contained liquid cooled Quiet Power cases too. Hi Ed, Yeah, when I was looking at those cases so as to be able to give an informed reply the first thing that came to mind was liquid cooling. They seem like an excellent choice for that purpose. I'm still not convinced that they're a great choice for an overclocked quad CPU on air though. :-) SignatureRegards, Shaun. > Somewhere on teh interweb Ed Medlin typed: snip > Hi Ed, > > Yeah, when I was looking at those cases so as to be able to give an informed > reply the first thing that came to mind was liquid cooling. They seem like > an excellent choice for that purpose. I'm still not convinced that they're a > great choice for an overclocked quad CPU on air though. :-) Hi Shaun, In a previous post you said you had an iCute case. I'm in the process of building a new PC and the iCute case look good with the HUGE 220 mm side fan (looks like it should blow lots of air onto the CPU). There is another input fan at the front bottom. It doesn't have any exhaust fans! But the back is just a large grid - looks like nothing to block the air. Any problems with it??? I live in Oz with the same summers you get in NZ. One thing I don't like with the one I'm looking at is that it has a lot of blue LED's around the big fan and a transparent side panel. It may look nice, but not for me! Cheers Gordy Somewhere on teh interweb Gorby typed: >> Somewhere on teh interweb Ed Medlin typed: > snip [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > lot of blue LED's around the big fan and a transparent side panel. It > may look nice, but not for me! Hi Gordy, Mate, I love this case! I wish It'd been available when i first started building PCs. In fact I'm seriously considering buying a couple more, just so that I have a spare* and for my second PC. Some links to the one I have, Model S901-5G1-BB: http://www.casepower.com.tw/english/S901.html http://pcworld.co.nz/pcworld/pcw.nsf/reviews/56FC71DAD9E5C67BCC2571ED000C70D2 and just for you: ;-) http://www.skycomp.com.au/product_info.php?products_id=31515 (I paid $NZ120 inc. GST for mine) To address your concerns; The 25cm fan on the side is almost inaudiable as it only turns at about 500rpm. However, it sure moves some air! Normally, if there isn't one standard, I'd put a buzzy little fan on the NB and (maybe the SB as well, I have an ICH9R, they can get hot I'm told). With this 25cm fan blowing air over pretty much the whole motherboard there's no need for little fans like that. Also, you can rest easy knowing that the graphics card area is also getting plenty of air (often a failing in otherwise good cases). You say there's "another input fan at the front bootom". The fact is, you can put that fan anywhere in the case (if there isn't an optical drive in the way). It's a 12cm fan that sits in a moveable bracket that 'covers' 3 x 5.25" bays and can be positioned anywhere. I have mine positioned in the middle three bays as my graphics card's hot exhaust was competing with the front fan when it was down lower. I have three SATA drives mounted with the included 5.25" to 3.5: adapter 'rails' sitting behind it. I have a (SATA) DVD writer at the very top, then a blank, then a FDD (and rails). Then my three HDDs, two more empty bays, then another DVD writer in the bottom bay. The HDDs run cooler without having the VGA card blowing hot air up their skirts. (My mobo is an ASUS P5K-E WiFi-AP that has only one IDE port and it's right on the bottom of the board. While an 18" IDE cable will *just* reach to the top bay, I bought a SATA DVD drive instead. I didn't like that wide cable interfering with airflow and generally cluttering my case up. Then I looked at the (perfectly fine) IDE drive I'd just removed and realised that there was no reason why I couldn't mount it in the bottom bay and fold the excess IDE robbon on itself and secure with a cable-tie. I don't like 'waste' so will mainly use my old faithful drive until it dies, saving the new one just for srchive DVDs for now). The back panel... As you say, it's well perforated. I have nothing there and if I put my hand behind the PC I can feel quite a strong breeze coming through. However, if you so choose there are holes for either 2 x 8cm fans or 1 x 120cm fan. Personally I think that all rear-mounted fans would do in this case is increase noise. It is amazingly quiet. The case feels a little light but seems rigid enough. There aren't any sharp edges inside that bit me (I've had many a cut from poorly-finished, cheaper cases). The gloss finish is quite good. It doesn't seem as "fingerprint-prone" as some others I've seen. However, it does scratch if you're an idiot like I was and lay the case down on it's side to work on it (with the left side still on) on top of a stray screw on the work surface. However, I think that would cause a problem with most case finishes. <g> The four USB2 ports and the headphones/mic ports just simply worked when plugged into the mobo which is always nice. All in all it was an easy and pleasant build. I'm running an E4500 at 3.3GHz (413 x 8) using a Tt Mini Typhoon and running SETI at 100% the cores sit at about ambient +23°C. The case temp is reported by the mobo diode as being about ambient + 5°C, although I think that's partly due to wherever the hell it is. <g> With the amount of air that moves through this case it is probably actually lower than that. So you don't like garish LEDs etc? Well, the front 12cm fan is clear with 4 blue LEDs around it but could easilly be swapped out for a different fan. (It's actually not too bad as it's only seen through black mesh.) The power LED is a rather bright blue as well. Fine in the day time but at night it acts as a night-light, shining on the opposite wall. It's got a lens in it and I'd say it's about 0.5W. Quite bright in the dark but doesn't appear so bad in the daytime. That could probably be replaced as well if it bothered you. I can't speak highly enough about this case. In the past I've pretty much always modded my cases by cutting a hole in the side and ducting a fan to the CPU fan. This case not only obliviates the need for that but also provides ample cooling for the 'bridges and the VGA, quetly and without costing an arm and a leg. I give it 10/10 for value and cooling. Best case I've ever owned, and 1/3rd the price of my old Thermaltake case. HTH, SignatureShaun. *One of the reasons I'm considering a spare case is, obviously I really like it, so I made enquiries with the NZ importer/supplier about 3 more sets of rails, another 12cm fan and bracket (plenty of room for more HDDs, my mobo has 6 x SATA ports internally) and a spare 25cm fan as it's proprietary and, if it were to fail, I would need another iCute 25cm fan to replace it (I can't imagine going back to another case). I got a reply saying that they didn't have a spare 25cm fan and couldn't quote for one (actually illegal in NZ, if you import a product and wholesale it you have to, by law, provide access to spare parts for a reasonable price and length of time after the product has been discontinued). They did quote me for the three rails, 12cm fan and mount, $NZ90!!! The whole damn case only cost me $NZ120. Don't get me wrong, there are no signs of imminent fan failure or anything like that. It's just that I know fans have a finite lifetime and wanted to be prepared when/if this one dies. However, as it turns so slowly I think it may have a long life-span. I'm in two minds whether to lubricate the bearing/bush now, to try to increase longevity. As I said, it seems fine. Quiet and smooth. I just like to be prepared. :-) > Hi Gordy, > [quoted text clipped - 85 lines] > > HTH, Thanks for that! I think I'm going to go and buy me an early Christmas present! I love reading these forums - Good value from knowledgeable people. I'm not yet overclocking, but building this rig for gaming. I love first person shooters. I've got a C2D e6600 cpu. nVidia 8800GTS video card. 2 gig Corsair RAM and a Gigabyte GA-P35C-DS3R. I wanted a mobo that would be a bit future proof. This can take DDR3 RAM, and also appears to be able to overclock (when I'm up to it, and whatever new games need more grunt). I have now blown my budget. No more new computing goodies for a couple of years. :) Thanks again! All of you! : Somewhere on teh interweb Howard Goldstein typed: : > On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 13:35:52 +1300, ~misfit~ : : <snip> : : >> Bafles no. However, I do, on occasion use ducts to feed anbient : >> temp air directly to the CPU cooler* fan. : > : > Ductwork is what I meant to write. You'd commended that to me to try : > out, too, I didn't forget. I really really wanna avoid taking a : > cutter to the side panel but I'm getting desperate. : : I don't blame you for getting deperate. See my comments below. : : > (this is the puppy here: : > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129025&Tpk=p182 : > I would not recommend this case except for use in a suit's office, : > and : > then only with the rebate) : : Wow! Now I see what you're working with. : : I'm sorry Howard but I have to agree with you, that case is a terrible : design for an overclocker. Maybe fine for a Core 2 Solo Celeron in, as you : say, "a suit's office". Maybe even one of the slower, cooler C2Ds. However, : from a thermal management viewpoint, that case is a nightmare. Who designs : these things? As my grandmother would say, "It's all shirt and no trousers". : : I can see that it's not going to be as easy as Phil and I thought for you to : chew a hole in the side. However, from looking at it, it's the only way that : you're ever going to get it to perform reasonably. Yeah, it'll be noisier. : However, as I think I've said to you before, "quiet" and "overclocked" : aren't good bed-fellows. : : <shakes head> I still can't get over the crazy design of that case. It : *might* be fine for a CPU with a TDP of 35W running in an air conditioned : office but otherwise it is, IMO, rubbish. (Sorry) I'd always thought Antec : were quite good going by peripheral noises that I've heard about them. : However, after seeing that and studying the airflow characteristics, I'm : glad I've never bought one and wouldn't thank you for one. (If I was forced : to build a system in it the first thing I'd do is make sure I have an : efficient CPU cooler that blows towards the mobo, then cut the side to : incorporate a fan the lines up with, and is ducted to the CPU fan) : : Good luck with trying to get it to get any performance out of it without : cutting. I still can't get over it. It looks like it was designed by the : marketing branch rather than a (knowledgeable) design team. Maybe it is a bridge too far. I'll try some more though. Ed has almost the exact same configuration right on down to the motherboard a.k.a a heating element -- except for water cooling. Ed even kept the tri cool fans! That's why I was really thinking about going to water. I completely suck with plumbing in any form. I know I'd have a puddle of green fluid one morning and I'd find the cat writhing in pain from licking up the leaked coolant. > Maybe it is a bridge too far. I'll try some more though. Ed has > almost the exact same configuration right on down to the motherboard [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > of green fluid one morning and I'd find the cat writhing in pain from > licking up the leaked coolant. LOL.....:-). Watercooling today is almost failsafe. The quick connectors are easy to manage and connect without worry. Take a look over at Swiftech.com and look at some of their offerings. The nice thing about watercooling is that the majority of your equipment can be moved from one computer to another one when you change. If I can do it I am sure anyone can.......:-) Ed How is your Noctua oriented, fan blowing upwards or backwards? And the Antec Tri-Cool fans, what speed are they set to? You have all three fans in the top and none in the bottom compartment? And a big hot HDD also is in the top? My cpu fan is blowing upwards, I have all HDDs in the bottom cage with the fan in the bottom on low. Both top and back fans are on low and I have none in the front, but I'm about to put the Noctua there. I have a passively cooled video card in at the moment, with the ducted 80mm fan with quiet mode adapter of the P180 case blowing on it. That is ducted to a grille where your water cooling pipes are. My system temp says 31° C with all four cores at 100%. CPU fan only says 1061 RPM, I thought I had a 1600 RPM. No wonder I can't hear it. I had tried the Noctua fan on my Thermalright, and it did not cool as well. It did not build pressure with the open tips, I think. I saw that there are some 120mm PWM fans now, too, that could ramp-up when necessary: www.heatsinkfactory.com/pwm-fans.html www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186015 I noticed there were some ducts here that could be useful: www.thermalright.com/a_page/main_support_installation_fanduct_hr01.htm http://www.heatsinkfactory.com/fan-ducting.html I don't think 29° C is too hot, that's only about 84° F. I would try the duct and try swapping one of the Antec fans temporarily to see if it helps. I wonder if you'd notice any change by opening the little door in front of the front fan... : How is your Noctua oriented, fan blowing upwards or backwards? : And the Antec Tri-Cool fans, what speed are they set to? You : have all three fans in the top and none in the bottom compartment? : And a big hot HDD also is in the top? My cpu fan is blowing upwards, : I have all HDDs in the bottom cage with the fan in the bottom on low. : Both top and back fans are on low and I have none in the front, but I'm : about to put the Noctua there. I have a passively cooled video card in : at the moment, with the ducted 80mm fan with quiet mode adapter of : the P180 case blowing on it. That is ducted to a grille where your water : cooling pipes are. How'd you do this ducting? The plastic thingie that attaches to the upper drive bay? : My system temp says 31° C with all four cores at : 100%. CPU fan only says 1061 RPM, I thought I had a 1600 RPM. : No wonder I can't hear it. Here's whwat I have: I pulled the tricools except for the one in the bottom chamber. I've sealed both of those door slats between chambers, you know how difficult it is to get nice clean closure on both slats at the same time nevermind with cables going through them. The bottom chamber has really good flow across 4 SATA drives. In the upper chamber I have a Noctua up front soon to be blowing out adjacent to just one not unusually warm running ATA drive. On the back panel is a noctua now blowing in, and up top us a 48cfm scythe blowing out that I'm going to turn around after posting this. I didn't put the noctua on the ultra 120x because of no pwm but that's in another case anyway (can I put in a good word for Rexflo? It does the trick on the 120x and doesn't get noisy until Speedfan does its brief excursions to 90% and beyond). Have you seen the new noctua fan with those ridgie things on the trailing edge supposedly to handle higher pressure situations? : : I had tried the Noctua fan on my Thermalright, and it did not : cool as well. It did not build pressure with the open tips, I think. I : saw that there are some 120mm PWM fans now, too, that could : ramp-up when necessary: : www.heatsinkfactory.com/pwm-fans.html : www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186015 : : I noticed there were some ducts here that could be useful: : www.thermalright.com/a_page/main_support_installation_fanduct_hr01.htm : http://www.heatsinkfactory.com/fan-ducting.html Damn that's a clever idea thank you. Can you think of any reasons why a plastic dryer duct piece couldn't be forced into this role? Maybe pull the fan from the top of the case, run the duct between that hole and the fan mounted on the other side of the cooler so it's sucking right from that hole blowing down and into the cooler? What think??? : : I don't think 29° C is too hot, that's only about 84° F. I would try the : duct and try swapping one of the Antec fans temporarily to see if it : helps. 29 in this room but 39 in the case :( Well actually it's now 44 in the case now but I screwed up the circulation by doing only half a job reconfiguring th fans : : I wonder if you'd notice any change by opening the little door in front : of the front fan... A big big change. Pulled those doors about 3 weeks ago and it took the upper chamber down 5 degrees instantly. > How'd you do this ducting? The plastic thingie that attaches to the > upper drive bay? The P180 came with a plastic duct. http://www.silentpcreview.com/article249-page6.html It only accepts a thin fan and it echoes. I need to deaden the sound a bit. > : My system temp says 31° C with all four cores at > : 100%. CPU fan only says 1061 RPM, I thought I had a 1600 RPM. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > In the upper chamber I have a Noctua up front soon to be blowing out > adjacent to just one not unusually warm running ATA drive. The front fan will be blowing out, then?! > On the back panel is a noctua now blowing in, and up top us a 48cfm > scythe blowing out that I'm going to turn around after posting this. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > with those ridgie things on the trailing edge supposedly to handle > higher pressure situations? I have now! It appears they reduced the gap at the blade tips, too. www.noctua.at/main.php?show=productview&products_id=12&lng=en > Can you think of any reasons why a plastic dryer duct piece couldn't > be forced into this role? Maybe pull the fan from the top of the case, > run the duct between that hole and the fan mounted on the other side > of the cooler so it's sucking right from that hole blowing down and into > the cooler? What think??? I know of two kinds of dryer ducts, one is metal and bends, and the other is plastic with a metal coil support. If you think you can make it work, that's great. Duct tape and cardboard is good, too! > : I don't think 29° C is too hot, that's only about 84° F. I would try the > : duct and try swapping one of the Antec fans temporarily to see if it [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > case now but I screwed up the circulation by doing only half a job > reconfiguring the fans Ok, I guess I am almost 10° C above ambient, too. I may be in the same boat in the summer. That cool ducted air cooling the CPU should help a lot, I think. Somewhere on teh interweb Fishface typed: >> How'd you do this ducting? The plastic thingie that attaches to the >> upper drive bay? [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] >> down and >> into the cooler? What think??? I think that, from a cooling standpoint, you'd be better to have the fan at the top and duct the (pressurised) air over the CPU cooler. It would be far more efficient than expecting the fan to *pull* air, a role that they're not designed to fill. (Radial case fans are 'pushers' not 'pullers'.) Also, it would be easier to make sure that the duct is fixed to the fan in a 'leakproof' manner that way. If the duct stops at the cooler, and the fan is on the other side and you're expecting it to pull it's air through the duct I think you'll be dissapointed. It will get air from the path of least resistance. i.e. Through the sides of the cooler, around the edges.... Much better to have cool air being pumped through the duct. Obviously the downside is the fan is at the top and more noise will leak. However, as I've always manitained, unless you have liquid cooling, OCing and quiet are polar opposite objectives. Maybe one (or even two "ganged") of those new Noctua fans that are designed for 'pressure' situations and are very quiet? > I know of two kinds of dryer ducts, one is metal and bends, and the > other is plastic with a metal coil support. If you think you can [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > same boat in the summer. That cool ducted air cooling the CPU should > help a lot, I think. Ambient here is currently 25°C. Asus's 'case' sensors is telling me 28 and CoreTemp is telling me 30/31. Just idling, Azureus, Firefox, OE open, and about 12 things in systray. Not bad for a 50% OC on air huh? Pretty quiet too. Glad I don't have one of those complicated Antec cases. <g> SignatureTTFN, Shaun. : Somewhere on teh interweb Fishface typed: : > Howard Goldstein wrote: : > : >> How'd you do this ducting? The plastic thingie that attaches to the : >> upper drive bay? : > : > The P180 came with a plastic duct. : > http://www.silentpcreview.com/article249-page6.html : > It only accepts a thin fan and it echoes. I need to deaden the sound : > a bit. : >>> My system temp says 31° C with all four cores at : >>> 100%. CPU fan only says 1061 RPM, I thought I had a 1600 RPM. : >>> No wonder I can't hear it. : >> : >> Here's whwat I have: I pulled the tricools except for the one in the : >> bottom chamber. I've sealed both of those door slats between : >> chambers, you know how difficult it is to get nice clean closure on : >> both slats at the same time nevermind with cables going through : >> them. The bottom chamber has really good flow across 4 SATA drives. : >> : >> In the upper chamber I have a Noctua up front soon to be blowing out : >> adjacent to just one not unusually warm running ATA drive. : > : > The front fan will be blowing out, then?! : > : >> On the back panel is a noctua now blowing in, and up top us a 48cfm : >> scythe blowing out that I'm going to turn around after posting this. : >> : >> I didn't put the noctua on the ultra 120x because of no pwm but : >> that's in another case anyway (can I put in a good word for Rexflo? It : >> does the trick on the 120x and doesn't get noisy until Speedfan : >> does its brief excursions to 90% and beyond). Have you seen the new : >> noctua fan with those ridgie things on the trailing edge supposedly : >> to handle higher pressure situations? : > : > I have now! It appears they reduced the gap at the blade tips, too. : > www.noctua.at/main.php?show=productview&products_id=12&lng=en : > : >> Can you think of any reasons why a plastic dryer duct piece couldn't : >> be forced into this role? Maybe pull the fan from the top of the : >> case, run the duct between that hole and the fan mounted on the : >> other side of the cooler so it's sucking right from that hole blowing : >> down and : >> into the cooler? What think??? : : I think that, from a cooling standpoint, you'd be better to have the fan at : the top and duct the (pressurised) air over the CPU cooler. It would be far : more efficient than expecting the fan to *pull* air, a role that they're not : designed to fill. (Radial case fans are 'pushers' not 'pullers'.) Also, it : would be easier to make sure that the duct is fixed to the fan in a : 'leakproof' manner that way. If the duct stops at the cooler, and the fan is : on the other side and you're expecting it to pull it's air through the duct : I think you'll be dissapointed. It will get air from the path of least : resistance. i.e. Through the sides of the cooler, around the edges.... I am disappointed now since that's what's happening without any ducting. It has the fan blowing outside directly into the intake fan and it's still idling at 10C over ambient at the rated Vcore and with the enhanced halt state stuff enabled. : Much better to have cool air being pumped through the duct. Obviously the : downside is the fan is at the top and more noise will leak. However, as I've : always manitained, unless you have liquid cooling, OCing and quiet are polar : opposite objectives. Yes, you have said that and for good reason. I'm not ready to throw in the towel yet in case it really isn't a bridge too far. I don't particularly like unecessary challenges but after 7 hours of sitting next to the box it becomes either him or me :( : : Maybe one (or even two "ganged") of those new Noctua fans that are designed : for 'pressure' situations and are very quiet? Next week they tell me. I can't get one yet :9 : : > I know of two kinds of dryer ducts, one is metal and bends, and the : > other is plastic with a metal coil support. If you think you can : > make it work, that's great. Duct tape and cardboard is good, too! : > : >>> I don't think 29° C is too hot, that's only about 84° F. I would : >>> try the duct and try swapping one of the Antec fans temporarily to : >>> see if it helps. : >> : >> 29 in this room but 39 in the case :( Well actually it's now 44 in : >> the case now but I screwed up the circulation by doing only half a : >> job reconfiguring the fans : > : > Ok, I guess I am almost 10° C above ambient, too. I may be in the : > same boat in the summer. That cool ducted air cooling the CPU should : > help a lot, I think. : : Ambient here is currently 25°C. Asus's 'case' sensors is telling me 28 and : CoreTemp is telling me 30/31. Just idling, Azureus, Firefox, OE open, and : about 12 things in systray. Not bad for a 50% OC on air huh? Pretty quiet : too. : : Glad I don't have one of those complicated Antec cases. <g> There you go. I see those sorts of nice coretemps on my other system with dual core and 50% oc. The difference is what you indicate, it's on an extremely well ventilated case, the antec 900. I suppose I ought to just try to sell the 182 to someone in an office (it really looks great) and get that case you're running with the 1 meter propellor on the side : Howard Goldstein wrote: : : > How'd you do this ducting? The plastic thingie that attaches to the : > upper drive bay? : : The P180 came with a plastic duct. : http://www.silentpcreview.com/article249-page6.html : It only accepts a thin fan and it echoes. I need to deaden the sound a bit. : : > : My system temp says 31° C with all four cores at : > : 100%. CPU fan only says 1061 RPM, I thought I had a 1600 RPM. : > : No wonder I can't hear it. : > : > Here's whwat I have: I pulled the tricools except for the one in the : > bottom chamber. I've sealed both of those door slats between : > chambers, you know how difficult it is to get nice clean closure on : > both slats at the same time nevermind with cables going through : > them. The bottom chamber has really good flow across 4 SATA drives. : > : > In the upper chamber I have a Noctua up front soon to be blowing out : > adjacent to just one not unusually warm running ATA drive. : : The front fan will be blowing out, then?! I have him blowing in now. Should I turn him around and have the rear and the top blowing in? : : > On the back panel is a noctua now blowing in, and up top us a 48cfm : > scythe blowing out that I'm going to turn around after posting this. : > : > I didn't put the noctua on the ultra 120x because of no pwm but that's : > in another case anyway (can I put in a good word for Rexflo? It does : > the trick on the 120x and doesn't get noisy until Speedfan does its : > brief excursions to 90% and beyond). Have you seen the new noctua fan : > with those ridgie things on the trailing edge supposedly to handle : > higher pressure situations? : : I have now! It appears they reduced the gap at the blade tips, too. : www.noctua.at/main.php?show=productview&products_id=12&lng=en I can't find any of these over here yet :( Supposedly they'll be coming in to moddersmart an ebay.us store next week : : > Can you think of any reasons why a plastic dryer duct piece couldn't : > be forced into this role? Maybe pull the fan from the top of the case, : > run the duct between that hole and the fan mounted on the other side : > of the cooler so it's sucking right from that hole blowing down and into : > the cooler? What think??? : : I know of two kinds of dryer ducts, one is metal and bends, and the other : is plastic with a metal coil support. If you think you can make it work, : that's great. Duct tape and cardboard is good, too! Yeah metal and metal coil support, those aren't good. I'll try the tape and cardboard : : > : I don't think 29° C is too hot, that's only about 84° F. I would try the : > : duct and try swapping one of the Antec fans temporarily to see if it : > : helps. : > : > 29 in this room but 39 in the case :( Well actually it's now 44 in the : > case now but I screwed up the circulation by doing only half a job : > reconfiguring the fans : : Ok, I guess I am almost 10° C above ambient, too. I may be in the same : boat in the summer. That cool ducted air cooling the CPU should help : a lot, I think. : On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 03:37:55 GMT, Fishface <invalid@ddress.ok?> wrote: : : I had tried the Noctua fan on my Thermalright, and it did not : : cool as well. It did not build pressure with the open tips, I think. I : : saw that there are some 120mm PWM fans now, too, that could : : ramp-up when necessary: : : www.heatsinkfactory.com/pwm-fans.html : : www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186015 : : : : I noticed there were some ducts here that could be useful: : : www.thermalright.com/a_page/main_support_installation_fanduct_hr01.htm : : http://www.heatsinkfactory.com/fan-ducting.html : : Damn that's a clever idea thank you. Can you think of any reasons why : a plastic dryer duct piece couldn't be forced into this role? Maybe : pull the fan from the top of the case, run the duct between that hole : and the fan mounted on the other side of the cooler so it's sucking : right from that hole blowing down and into the cooler? What think??? Cardboard from the cooler up to the top noctua blowing in took me to 35/30 idle_coretemp/ambient -- awesome. Thank you all! I just ordered one of those thermalright ducts to try to get a cleaner install, maybe shave another degree off too. And that noctua is quiet enough to just leave running at full speed the whole time Next up: Get this Q6600 back up above 3Ghz again. Time to dig up the post with Ed's overclocking parms for this bad boy Somewhere on teh interweb Howard Goldstein typed: >> On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 03:37:55 GMT, Fishface <invalid@ddress.ok?> >> wrote: : I had tried the Noctua fan on my Thermalright, and it did [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > And that noctua is quiet enough to just leave running at full speed > the whole time Excellent news! Ducted outside air works for me everytime. :-) > Next up: Get this Q6600 back up above 3Ghz again. Time to dig up the > post with Ed's overclocking parms for this bad boy Heh! You have access to a good source of info there. Good luck. SignatureShaun. Somewhere on teh interweb Fishface typed: >> I have it clocked at 3.2GHz at the moment, (400 x 8) stressing with >> Prime95 ver. 25.5. It's been running for over an hour now with CPU-Z [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > FWIW, those are the temperatures I saw at 3.2 GHz with identical > vCore. Thanks Ff, handy to know. SignatureTTFN, Shaun. '~misfit~' wrote, in part: | The hottest it's got, in a 20°C room, according to CoreTemp is 68°C. What do | you guys (and gals?) think of that? Should I give it to him like that? He's | a gamer but I don't think he has any games that would put the load on the | cores that Prime does. I had the vcore in BIOS one setting lower and Prime | threw up an error. Seems good as it is though. _____ For what it's worth, my experience with my E4300 is that a TAT temperature of about 72 C is the limit for overclocking this individual E4300. When the room ambient temperature is low enough, I can increase the CPU speed and have it remain stable as long as the TAT temperature is below about 72 C; at that point nothing more is possible. With a room ambient ~ 22 C the TAT temperature and 100% load X 2 reaches ~ 72 C at about 3.2 GHz. As winter comes on I'll be able to try with room ambient temperatures down to 10 C or lower. From my experience (and from reviewing posted anecdotal information) ANY temperature is 'safe' for an Intel CPU. The worst that can happen is that the system locks up, the CPU cools down, and you can just reboot with no harm done. Since you are building this system for a friend, you have to consider the same problem that Dell or any system builder has; you don't have any control on the conditions of use. A lower CPU core temperature means the end user can let more dust bunnies collect on the heatsink fins, place the system case in the sun, etc. It'd be easy enough to just tell your friend that and have him decide if more performance is worth taking a little more care in the conditions of use. Please continue to post information about your quad core experience. I figure that the 'Penryn' prices will be reasonable about the same time as my last kid is out of university and I will be able to afford a new CPU B^) As you can see from my 'Centech' post, a not-contact infrared digital thermometer can be real useful for checking temperatures in various parts of the system case. Your 3 X 120 mm fans seem more than adequate for cooling, even in NZ. I've got two 120 mm fans blowing in (one over the two hard drives and one over the CPU/memory/GPU slot 1 area) and two rear panel 80 mm fans to blowing out (plus the PS fan blowing out.) With the ThermalTake 7i heatsink fin orientation, the front panel 120 mm fan gives a straight through air flow to cool the CPU while the side 120 mm fan adds air flow for the GPU slots and chipset heatsink. I removed the 'faceplate' around the rear panel connectors to increase the air flow across the heatsink for the DC to DC voltage downconvertors-regulator. The case runs at a slight positive pressure, so a filter in front of each 120 mm fan takes care of dust. I'm still using the two Enlight 8950 server cases I bought about seven or so years ago for my personal system builds - nothing like a big roomy case for overclocking. Phil Weldon Phil Weldon | Hey, | [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] | | TIA, > Hey, > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > TIA, A tool like "RMClock" can display whether throttling is occurring. I don't know if RMClock is quad compatible or not. http://cpu.rightmark.org/download.shtml http://cpu.rightmark.org/products/rmclock.shtml (list Kentsfield here, so I guess so) The digital temperature measurement inside the processor, is measured with respect to Tcase_max. That means, as the temperature gets up to Tcase_max, the register containing the temperature is just about reading zero. To get the absolute temperature, versus the relative temperature register, any measurement tool must know what the Tcase_max is for the product. If you had access to that "register value", at the instant the reading hits zero, you should see throttling start to occur. From an end user point of view, that is the thing you want to avoid, from a cooling design standpoint. So with your quad core Prime95 test running, you want enough cooling in place, so that throttling is not seen in RMClock, or the raw measurement from a tool that can access the HECI temperature measurement, is not hitting the zero value. The Big Typhoon is optimized for silent cooling, as opposed to the absolute best cooling. You can change the fan on it, to do better, at the expense of extra noise. Or switch to something like a Tuniq Tower. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835154001 Thermal resistance 0.16 to 0.21C/W. http://www.jab-tech.com/Tuniq-Tower-120-pr-3593.html The Zalman CNPS9700 is listed here as having thermal resistance of 0.12 to 0.16 °C/W, which is better. To compute temperature rise, theta_R * power_in_watts gives temp rise in degrees C. The Q6600 is 95 watts, but you have to scale that by the degree of overclock, and also scale by the ratio of voltages squared. (If stock was 1.28V and you actually applied 1.375, then 1.375/1.28 squared is a factor of 1.154x more.) 95W * (3.2/2.4) * 1.154 = 146W. And 146W times the 0.12 of a CNPS9700 would give a temp rise of 17.5C above case air temp. http://www.crazypc.com/products/50992.html The Thermalright Ultra 120 did well here. http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=326&type=expert&pid=4 The Ultra 120 Extreme version is listed here as measured at 0.15C/W. With a more aggressive fan, it might even do better than that. http://www.silentpcreview.com/article759-page3.html There are plenty of choices out there, and always something new. To aid a good CPU cooler, a high volume exhaust fan near the exit also helps. A performance CPU cooler can't do the job, if there is a cloud of hot air around the cooler. That is one of the reasons, I use one of these :-) I power this from a Molex connector, not a motherboard header. I also have a home made voltage reducer, as this is too noisy at a full 12V. It also helps to use a few extra holes on the front of the case (like remove some drive bay covers), to get enough air to feed that thing. I only bought this fan locally, as an impulse purchase, when I saw the fan had a metal frame rather than the usual plastic frame. http://www.circuittest.com/English/Content/Items/CFA1212038MS.asp Paul Somewhere on teh interweb Paul typed: >> Hey, >> [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > http://cpu.rightmark.org/products/rmclock.shtml (list Kentsfield > here, so I guess so) Hmmm. I have RMClock here, and installed on my E4500. I just didn't think to install it on the Q6600 as it tells me nothing on my rig that the other utilities don't already tell me. Except throttle I s'pose, and as my rig runs at 50° max it never throttles. Didn't think to run it on that rig, didn't want to clutter the systray with *three* icons. (What's up with that anyway?) > The digital temperature measurement inside the processor, is measured > with respect to Tcase_max. That means, as the temperature gets up to [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > absolute best cooling. You can change the fan on it, to do better, at the > expense of extra noise. Or switch to something like a Tuniq Tower. Yeah. In New Zealand we're not spoilt for choice and we don;t have fiercly competitive suppliers such as folks in the US enjoy. I read good reviews about the Big Typhoon (one review site used it as their reference when testing other coolers). The rheostat (?) is on full throttle, it's moving some air. > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835154001 > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > With a more aggressive fan, it might even do better than that. > http://www.silentpcreview.com/article759-page3.html Thanks for all that. > There are plenty of choices out there, and always something new. Just not so much if you live in NZ. US suppliers either won't ship or shipping is more than the item and Australian suppliers are similar. To get my ThermalRight bolt-thru kit I had the local agent get me one in from Taiwan. There just isn't the variety here. > To aid a good CPU cooler, a high volume exhaust fan near the exit also > helps. A performance CPU cooler can't do the job, if there is a cloud > of hot air around the cooler. His case has two 120mm fans exhausting from 'under' the Big Typhoon; <http://www.overclockercafe.com/Reviews/cases/Gigabyte_Aurora/pg_2.htm> Still, though, as I ran Prime, I watched the cores/case temp climb for the first few minutes until it stabilised after about 5 minutes. It could do with btreathing better. More inlets into the case would be suitable, I've suggested he get a 120mm hole cut in the case window and mount a fan directly above the cooler fan and duct it. That would really improve it. > That is one of the reasons, I use one of > these :-) I power this from a Molex connector, not a motherboard [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > frame. > http://www.circuittest.com/English/Content/Items/CFA1212038MS.asp That's a beast of a fan. I have a few fans here similar (120mm x 38mm) only three bladed. I can't find one of the aluminium framed ones at the moment (and flatmates asleep) but I did find a plastic one I have a couple of. Nidec Beta V (TA450DC). It appears to have a small thermistor sticking out from the motor body so I assume is self-throttling. It'd have to be, it's a powerful beast. It actually has "Made in U.S.A." on it. Ahh, here it is, seems it may have come from a Dell or Compaq server: http://www.rexususa.com/fans/21238-1.html I might try fitting it to the Big Typhoon. :-) Cheers Paul, SignatureShaun. > Ahh, here it is, seems it may have come from a Dell or Compaq server: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Cheers Paul, I see on that web page it is rated at 130CFM max, and only draws 0.8A. Pretty impressive :-) The problem with heatsink design, is finding a compromise between total fin area in square inches, versus fin spacing. Scythe, for example, tends towards the "wide spacing" idea. Fitting a more powerful fan to a Scythe means that the fan doesn't have to deal with as much "arrestance". Some of the heatsinks with tighter fin spacing, result in more square inches of cooling surface, but the fan also has to work harder to push the air through the fins. Fans have a "load curve" (I don't know the proper technical term for it), which shows the flow rate achieved as the path to flow becomes more resistive to that flow. Some fans (like the fan in your vacuum cleaner) can continue to push air, even when there is a lot of resistance. But that comes at the expense of noise. Still, it should be interesting, to see whether you can squeeze a 10C reduction from the Typhoon, with a bit more air. As for the supply of computer goodies, things in Canada aren't a lot better. A lot of outfits in the States, don't sell to Canada. So, if there are bargains, it is harder to access them. If I had to go mail order, there is ncix.com , which is as close to a Newegg as we'll get. Local shops continue to die out, and just last week, I drove to one, to find the doors closed. I don't want to live in a place, that only has a Best Buy, but it may come to that. Paul |
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