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Hardware Forum / Motherboards / Gigabyte / November 2006Gigabyte 965P S3 problems with SATA Hard Drive - help wanted
Using Gigabyte 965P S3 motherboard with F5 bios Everything is fine and stable using EIDE hard drives, but I'm having trouble installing an SATA hard drive: Western Digital's SE16 320GB SATA (WD3200KS) With the SATA drive, it just doesn't work. Everything is slow. System regularly locks up. Processes lock up and "end process" doesn't work. I'm not sure if this is a Motherboard issue or one with the Hard Drive (here after just HD). There are just too many variables so I'm hoping someone can point me in the right direction. Here's some more information on how I got here. --- I formated the HD using XP's windows managment sofware. I've used this before with IDE drives with no issues whatsoever. I formated a simple drive with a primary partition and a few other partions on the logical drive. --- I used True Image to restore an image to the SATA primary (active) partition. This image was created from an IDE HD. --- No SATA drivers were available for download from Gigabyte's website except the RAID ones. I'm not running raid on SATA. --- Regarding BIOS option "SATA Port0-3 Native Mode", I have tried it with this option Enabled and Disabled, but with no noticable difference. --- Looking at the Device Manager, I'm showing some problems. I don't think the SATA drive is getting recongized correctly and it's coming up with a generic driver. Not sure where to get the drivers from. Western Digital didn't seem to offer any, nor did Gigabyte. --- I downloaded and ran Western Digitals Lifeguard Diagnostics Tools (11.2) and the drive checked out as error free. --- The S3 offers a three different SATA inferfaces. I tried all three but I didn't notice a difference. My next step is to use Western Digitals Formating tools which I'm hoping I can run from my IDE to format the SATA. I've read WD's tutorial for this sofware, but I can't see how this will be any different from XPs format tools. I'm guessing that XP isn't recognzing the drive correctly probably because the image I restored to the SATA was created from the active partition when it was on an IDE drive. I really don't want to install XP from scratch, but everytime I try to uninstall the hard drive drivers from the device manager, the computer hangs forcing a reboot. While experimenting, the SATA drive eventually corrupts itself and I have to reformat. This is a lengthly process and so troubleshooting is very slow and time consuming. Any help is extremely apprecaited. Thank you! > Using Gigabyte 965P S3 motherboard with F5 bios > Everything is fine and stable using EIDE hard drives, but I'm having [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > Thank you! jimrainfordson: 1. First of all, I don't think whatever problems you're experiencing is due to a formatting issue. The Disk Management utility does the job just fine and there's no need to use a third-party formatting tool, even if it's provided by the manufacturer of your HDD. 2. I also don't think there's a driver issue here. Since this is a non-RAID configuration I'm virtually certain the SATA controller driver is, in effect, built-in to the BIOS. Check your User Manual for information on this and if it's unclear, check with Gigabyte. 3. I take it that SATA HDD is intended to be a boot drive since you say you used the Acronis program to restore a disk image from your (I assume) booting PATA HDD. Is it possible something went awry with that recovery process and it's that that is causing your problems? 4. Would it not be sensible to simply make a fresh install of the XP OS onto your SATA HDD to determine whether any problem exists under those circumstances? 5. Have you tried different SATA connectors on the motherboard? And of course you're satisfied that the signal/data cable connection is secure on both ends, right? Anna It doesnt matter whether you are using raid or not, you need to install sata raid drivers from floppy useing the F6 option during the install/repair of win. See pages 27.7/8 and page 74.4 on, of your manual > > Using Gigabyte 965P S3 motherboard with F5 bios > > Everything is fine and stable using EIDE hard drives, but I'm having [quoted text clipped - 75 lines] > both ends, right? > Anna > It doesnt matter whether you are using raid or not, you need to install sata > raid drivers from floppy useing the F6 option during the install/repair of > win. It's correct that I'm not using RAID. As I've said elsewhere I very much want to avoid installing XP from scratch because I put a lot of time into creating a nice clean image with all the bells and whistles I like. Do you know of a way in which I could install these drivers without having to completely start the install all over? Perhaps the "repair" function from windows would all this? > See pages 27.7/8 and page 74.4 on, of your manual Ah, yes, RTFM. Sorry I missed that. My MB manual doesn't show much on page 27, but 74 shows me what you're talking about, page 65 being the start of it. I did have SATA enabled in IDE mode but I'm still missing the proper win drivers. There no need to clean install, repair install and use the F6 option, early in the process to install sata/raid drivers from floppy > > It doesnt matter whether you are using raid or not, you need to install sata > > raid drivers from floppy useing the F6 option during the install/repair of [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > start of it. I did have SATA enabled in IDE mode but I'm still missing > the proper win drivers. > There no need to clean install, repair install and use the F6 option, early > in the process to install sata/raid drivers from floppy Great! I'll try that but I recently realized my little used FDD is broken so I'll be looking to burn a CD-ROM. I've never actually done a repair install. I assume I'll need to go through the entire process rather than stop when the drivers are installed. I've been very careful to keep my image as clean as possible so I hope the repair installs aren't problematic creating problems that don't pop up until a later time. I'll try this as soon as I can. Thank you. Reinstalling the driver is fairly easy. Find the device in device manager (Note that if the driver is not installed, it may be under other or unknown devices). Right click, properties, Driver, update driver. Or something like that (it's slightly different if the device is "unknown", which it will be if no driver is currently installed). >>It doesnt matter whether you are using raid or not, you need to install sata >>raid drivers from floppy useing the F6 option during the install/repair of [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > start of it. I did have SATA enabled in IDE mode but I'm still missing > the proper win drivers. > Reinstalling the driver is fairly easy. Find the device in device > manager (Note that if the driver is not installed, it may be under other > or unknown devices). Right click, properties, Driver, update driver. > Or something like that (it's slightly different if the device is > "unknown", which it will be if no driver is currently installed). To repeat myself a bit... after booting and running the OS from my old IDE HDD, I was able to format the SATA HDD with it attached as slave (or whatever the SATA equivilant of slave is). I used XP's Computer Managment to format and then I installed the image to the SATA while booted via the IDE. I restarted, changed the boot to the SATA HDD in the bios and went from there. I did all this witout the proper SATA drviers installed which is natural considering I was running from the IDE drive. Is there any reason to fear corruption on the logical drives of the SATA that were created by the IDE? As for the Device Manager, I'm going to have to play with it. Upon first installing the image to the SATA and booting from the SATA HDD, things are running badly without the drivers with a good change of things hanging up. I've managed to access the device manager but it hangs when I try to change or uninstall the drivers. Even if I somehow got it to work I'd be worried there was some corruption to the primary partition data during the time when I was troubleshooting it. I'm guessing this is one of the reasons the user is instructed to install the drivers during the OS install. Wow. Whatta hassle. I was perfectly happy with IDE. Well, I'm off to start tyring out some of these suggestions. Thanks for you help. Hi Anna, thanks for the post... > 1. First of all, I don't think whatever problems you're experiencing is due > to a formatting issue. The Disk Management utility does the job just fine > and there's no need to use a third-party formatting tool, even if it's > provided by the manufacturer of your HDD. I agree. > 2. I also don't think there's a driver issue here. Since this is a non-RAID > configuration I'm virtually certain the SATA controller driver is, in > effect, built-in to the BIOS. Check your User Manual for information on this > and if it's unclear, check with Gigabyte. Others address this more in detail. I think you're essentially right and it's enabled in the bios, but this still could be a problem area. > 3. I take it that SATA HDD is intended to be a boot drive since you say you > used the Acronis program to restore a disk image from your (I assume) > booting PATA HDD. Is it possible something went awry with that recovery > process and it's that that is causing your problems? Yes, the SATA is intended to be the boot HDD. I might still use the IDE drive for storage but right now it's my only working boot HDD. I'm pretty sure the recovery process is fine and I've tried it more than once. > 4. Would it not be sensible to simply make a fresh install of the XP OS onto > your SATA HDD to determine whether any problem exists under those > circumstances? I'd be willing to do it as a test but I really don't want to have to start all over with my OS. The image I have created is very clean yet has all my options and prefrences set up just they way I like them and all the apps I like are installed as well. > 5. Have you tried different SATA connectors on the motherboard? And of > course you're satisfied that the signal/data cable connection is secure on > both ends, right? > Anna Cables are secured and as DL explains there are 6 inferfaces. I've tried each type but not all six. Good idea. I'm thinking that it might be a driver issue afterall as DL and others suggest. I have the same drive (320GB WD KS series) on a GA-965P-DS3, which I believe is the same motherboard except for the capacitors in the Vcore power supply. There are six SATA ports on the motherboard. Four of them have orange sockets and are connected to the Intel ICH8 chipset. Two of them have purple sockets and are connected to the Gigabyte SATA/IDE controller (which is actually a JMicron device). This device (the JMicron part) contains both the IDE port and two SATA ports which can be used in either RAID or non-RAID configurations. However, for EITHER type of use, you must install the driver in Windows to use these ports. No driver installation is required for the IDE ports, which are fully supported in the BIOS and the 965 chipset software. For maximum performance, install the driver for the JMicron controller (Gigabyte calls it a Gigabyte controller) and connect the SATA drive to one of the purple ports. These ports are at least potentially faster than the ICH8 SATA ports (orange connectors), because the support AHCI and NCQ. This device must also be properly configured in the BIOS, where there are several items related to it. For minimum hassle and maximum reliability, connect the SATA drive(s) to the Intel ICH8 ports (orange connectors). These are supported in the bios and by the chipset software, so no additional drivers are required. But RAID, AHCI and NCQ are not supported by ICH8. There is a single Windows driver for both SATA and non-SATA use of the Gigabyte (JMicron) controller. It is both on the CD and on the Gigabyte web site. In additon to the Windows driver, you might want to download the DOS driver for this controller as well. This is on the web site but not on the CD (huge oversight, in my view). This is installed via config.sys and allows DOS access to SATA drives on the Gigabyte (JMicron) controller should you boot from DOS for system maintanence purposes. Since the Gigabyte/JMicron device is present on the motherboard in all cases (whether it's used or not), I would recommend installing it's driver even if it's not currently being used. At the very least, this identifies, classifies and properly configures/initializes the device so that you don't have an "junk" in device manager. > Using Gigabyte 965P S3 motherboard with F5 bios > Everything is fine and stable using EIDE hard drives, but I'm having [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > Thank you! Thanks for the reply Barry, > I have the same drive (320GB WD KS series) on a GA-965P-DS3, which I > believe is the same motherboard except for the capacitors in the Vcore > power supply. Yes, while you have the better built board I believe everyting else is identical although my bios versions are one step behind yours in name only. (i.e. F5 version for me is F6 for you but otherwise the same). > There are six SATA ports on the motherboard. Four of them have orange > sockets and are connected to the Intel ICH8 chipset. Two of them have [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > driver installation is required for the IDE ports, which are fully > supported in the BIOS and the 965 chipset software. Thanks for clearing this up. Besides chosing between ICH8 and the Gigabyte/JMicron (purple), does it matter which slot I put it in? (i.e. 0,1,3,4, etc?) > For maximum performance, install the driver for the JMicron controller > (Gigabyte calls it a Gigabyte controller) and connect the SATA drive to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > bios and by the chipset software, so no additional drivers are required. > But RAID, AHCI and NCQ are not supported by ICH8. Okay, I'm starting with minmum "hassle & max reliability" so it's orange ICH8 for now. And to repeat, no raid intended. I just want a boot HDD with a few extra partitions. As for the bios options, I've "enabled" SATA and I've chosen "IDE" (as opposed to AHCI) because it seemed to be the safest choice for now. There's another option for SATA Port0-3 Native Mode which I currently have disabled, but I could ENABLE it if necessary. I'm not sure at this time what this does or what it should be set at. Beyond that, I don't see any other bios options related to SATA, so please let me know if I've missed any. > There is a single Windows driver for both SATA and non-SATA use of the > Gigabyte (JMicron) controller. It is both on the CD and on the Gigabyte [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > (JMicron) controller should you boot from DOS for system maintanence > purposes. Okay, to be clear, you're saying I shouldn't need this driver so long as I used the ICH8 interface along with the correctly enabled bios options, right? As mentioned elsewhere, a major goal of mine is to be able to use the image I created and NOT have to install XP from scratch. Assuming I need the SATA drivers, let me see if I understand.... I've downloaded all the SATA drivers from Gigabyte, including the DOS. (I have the CD if needed, but didn't use it). Do you think I can use the DOS driver in order to avoid having to install the OS from scratch? To my thinking I could use my current HDD to restore an image to the SATA drive, then boot into dos and somehow install the driver before the SATA drive launches for even the first time. Does that seem practical? > Since the Gigabyte/JMicron device is present on the motherboard in all > cases (whether it's used or not), I would recommend installing it's > driver even if it's not currently being used. At the very least, this > identifies, classifies and properly configures/initializes the device so > that you don't have an "junk" in device manager. That sounds like a good idea, but right now I just want to get things stable. Here's a little update... I previously got the image boot to run with problems. I didn't have to change any bios options, but I did switch to the orange interface and it did launch. Hardware Device manager didn't show any question marks and things appeared to run smoothlly. However, it did hang when I shut down. I pushed my luck and reinstalled the image again (for fear I had corrupted it earlier) but this time no boot. Hangs while loading windows. Again, the only real thing I've done is change from purple to orange. I'll do some more experimenting and check back. Boy I really appreciate the help. You guys are lifesavers. Right, go with the orange sockets. I'd go with SATA0, that's where it expects the first drive. My understanding is that in that configuration, the driver is not needed, however I'd install it anyway. Not critical, however, at this time. I would restore the image while the drive is connected to the new port. If it hangs at boot, you may need to do a repair install. I have a feeling that a new install would fix all your problems, but I understand the reasons for not wanting to do that. I am also unclear on some of the BIOS settings. > Thanks for the reply Barry, > [quoted text clipped - 88 lines] > > Boy I really appreciate the help. You guys are lifesavers. There appears to be some confusion regarding ICH8. ICH8 supports RAID 0 and fault-tolerant RAID level 1, 5 or 10, eSATA with Hot Plug compatibility and AHCI with Native Command Queuing compatibility. AHCI with Native Command Queuing compatibility is best suited for improving single drive performance while RAID is best for a high-end workstation. Native mode if fine if you only have WIN XP on the HD. You probably installed the OS with the MB set to AHCI as the RAID installation would have required you to press F6 during Windows setup in order to successfully complete the installation. It is wise to install in RAID mode as installing the RAID driver at a later point in time in a bit time-consuming (see below). Gigabyte RAID drivers: http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Support/Motherboard/Driver_Model.aspx?ClassValue=Moth erboard&ProductID=2295&ProductName=GA-965P-DQ6 Intel RAID drivers: http://downloadfinder.intel.com/scripts-df-external/Product_Filter.aspx?ProductI D=1809&lang=eng The prior comment about installing the OS from scratch seems like a reasonable trouble shooting solution if you are not too far along. Trying another hard drive would also be an idea if the reinstall does not work. Specifically, some hard drives and some hard drives with certain firmware revisions are not compatible with ICH8R. The manufacturers are aware of drive incompatibilities and will typically provide a firmware update to address the problem. To date, the Maxtor 6B300S0 is the only drive that we could not get to work properly on a Gigabyte MB with ICH8R, despite multiple firmware updates. To install the RAID driver at later point in time 1. Place a drive on the GIGABYTE SATA2 RAID controller, boot the OS and install the driver when prompted. 2. Move the hard drive with the OS to the GIGABYTE SATA2 RAID controller 3. Place the extra drive on the Intel ICH8R controller and set it to RAID (it will run fine in RAID with a single drive) 4. Select the GIGABYTE SATA2 RAID as the primary boot device in the bios 5. Boot the OS and install the ICH8 driver when prompted (your OS now has the both drivers installed). 6. Place the hard drive with the OS back on the ICH8R controller and select ICH8R as the primary boot device in the bios 7. The system will now boot to RAID on the ICH8. > Using Gigabyte 965P S3 motherboard with F5 bios > Everything is fine and stable using EIDE hard drives, but I'm having [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > Thank you! There appears to be some confusion regarding ICH8. ICH8 supports RAID 0 and fault-tolerant RAID level 1, 5 or 10, eSATA with Hot Plug compatibility and AHCI with Native Command Queuing compatibility. AHCI with Native Command Queuing compatibility is best suited for improving single drive performance while RAID is best for a high-end workstation. Native mode if fine if you only have WIN XP on the HD. You probably installed the OS with the MB set to AHCI as the RAID installation would have required you to press F6 during Windows setup in order to successfully complete the installation. It is wise to install in RAID mode as installing the RAID driver at a later point in time in a bit time-consuming (see below). Gigabyte RAID drivers: http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Support/Motherboard/Driver_Model.aspx?ClassValue=Moth erboard&ProductID=2295&ProductName=GA-965P-DQ6 Intel RAID drivers: http://downloadfinder.intel.com/scripts-df-external/Product_Filter.aspx?ProductI D=1809&lang=eng The prior comment about installing the OS from scratch seems like a reasonable trouble shooting solution if you are not too far along. Trying another hard drive would also be an idea if the reinstall does not work. Specifically, some hard drives and some hard drives with certain firmware revisions are not compatible with ICH8R. The manufacturers are aware of drive incompatibilities and will typically provide a firmware update to address the problem. To date, the Maxtor 6B300S0 is the only drive that we could not get to work properly on a Gigabyte MB with ICH8R, despite multiple firmware updates. To install the RAID driver at later point in time 1. Place an extra drive on the GIGABYTE SATA2 RAID controller, boot the OS and install the IGABYTE SATA2 driver when prompted. 2. Move the hard drive with the OS to the GIGABYTE SATA2 RAID controller 3. Place the extra drive on the Intel ICH8R controller and set it to RAID in the bios (it will run fine in RAID with a single drive) 4. Select the GIGABYTE SATA2 RAID as the primary boot device in the bios 5. Boot the OS and install the ICH8 driver when prompted (your OS now has both drivers installed). 6. Place the hard drive with the OS back on the ICH8R controller and select ICH8R as the primary boot device in the bios 7. The system will now boot to RAID on the ICH8. > Using Gigabyte 965P S3 motherboard with F5 bios > Everything is fine and stable using EIDE hard drives, but I'm having [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > Thank you! ICH8 supports no raid at all, of any kind, period. You appear to be describing ICH8R. It's a different chip (which might sometimes be carelessly referred to as ICH8). The board in question uses ICH8, not ICH8R. Which is precisely why Gigabyte added the JMicron chip. > There appears to be some confusion regarding ICH8. > [quoted text clipped - 94 lines] >> >> Thank you! Hi NewsGroups, thanks for the help. > There appears to be some confusion regarding ICH8. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > suited for improving single drive performance while RAID is best for a > high-end workstation. Native mode if fine if you only have WIN XP on the HD. You're right about my confusion, but your clarifcation helps. I'm just using XP on a home PC with no networking and no desire for RAID. You say AHCI with Native Command Queuing, so does that mean I should ENABLE bios option "SATA Port0-3 Native Mode"? > You probably installed the OS with the MB set to AHCI as the RAID > installation would have required you to press F6 during Windows setup in > order to successfully complete the installation. I actually created the image with a previous MB that may not have even offered RAID support. Again, an IDE HD on my new system with new MB has been rock solid. Either way you are correct, I don't recall pressing F6 to complete the OS install. > It is wise to install > in RAID mode as installing the RAID driver at a later point in time in a > bit time-consuming (see below). > > Gigabyte RAID drivers: > http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Support/Motherboard/Driver_Model.aspx?ClassValue=Moth erboard&ProductID=2295&ProductName=GA-965P-DQ6 Actually, that's not my MB. I have the the Gig 965P S3 (similar to the DS3). Looking up that board on Gigabytes website gives me a different selection of SATA drivers. 1 windows 32 bit, 1 windows 64 bit, and one DOS. I'm not trying to split hairs. Just wondering if there's a reason I should use your link instead of the ones shown for my specific MB. > Intel RAID drivers: > http://downloadfinder.intel.com/scripts-df-external/Product_Filter.aspx?ProductI D=1809&lang=eng Thanks. Good resource. The install guide for this driver still asks for the F6 fresh install method... > The prior comment about installing the OS from scratch seems like a > reasonable trouble shooting solution if you are not too far along. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > 6B300S0 is the only drive that we could not get to work properly on a > Gigabyte MB with ICH8R, despite multiple firmware updates. At this point I'm just trying to get stable with SATA in any mode I can get working without corrupting data along the way. If I read you right, the following instructions require a second SATA HDD but I currently only have one along with my older IDE drives. I'll save your instructions for a later time. > To install the RAID driver at later point in time > 1. Place an extra drive on the GIGABYTE SATA2 RAID controller, boot the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > select ICH8R as the primary boot device in the bios > 7. The system will now boot to RAID on the ICH8. Thank you The last post was correct for ICH8R but not for ICH8, person probably has DS4 or DQ6 MB which is for RAID 965P-S3 - ICH8 965P-DS3 - ICH8 965P-DS4 - ICH8R 965P-DQ6 - ICH8R Good iformation on Intel site in English PDF for ICH8* will explain all differences for ICH8, ICH8R, ICH8DH, and ICH8DO. ftp://download.intel.com/design/chipsets/datashts/31305602.pdf With the board that uses ICH8 base, the SATA controller/ports will be in IDE mode. See PDF for all information With the board that uses ICH8R, the SATA controller/ports will support 1) IDE mode 2) Advanced Host Controller Interface (AHCI) mode for Native Command Queuing, native hot plug, and power management features 3) RAID Ready mode - single hard drive with AHCI enabled 4) RAID 0, 1, 5 or 10 Intel SATA ports (0-3) and the Gigabyte SATA2 RAID ports will enable or disable legacy IDE mode for these ports. I prefer 965P-DQ6 and 965P-DS4 for RAID, hot plug and AHCI but GIGABYTE controller has some good features if not interested in RAID > Hi NewsGroups, thanks for the help. > [quoted text clipped - 70 lines] > > Thank you > Hi NewsGroups, thanks for the help. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > say AHCI with Native Command Queuing, so does that mean I should ENABLE > bios option "SATA Port0-3 Native Mode"? AHCI is only supported by the gigabyte SATA connectors, and is of no use to your average home user anyway, the setting you are refering to is for the ICH8 SATA ports. >> You probably installed the OS with the MB set to AHCI as the RAID >> installation would have required you to press F6 during Windows setup in [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > has been rock solid. Either way you are correct, I don't recall > pressing F6 to complete the OS install. Here is the root of your problem I think. Did you install the chipset drivers for ICH8? If you have imaged a drive without the proper drivers you will get all sorts of problems, (assuming it loads straight off the bat). I haven't read the entire thread, but I would suggest if you can boot into safe mode, get the chipset drivers from the intel site and install them. F6 is only for installing if you wish to use third party controllers that Windows doesn't recognise, and then you need to push F6 at the begining of the installation to install the drivers, otherwise setup won't see the third party controllers. So, for example, if you wished to install your OS to a HDD on the Gigabyte SATA controller, (RAID or otherwise), you would need to have the Gigabyte drivers on a floppy, and virtually as soon as setup begins you will see a brief message at the bottom of the screen telling you to push F6 to install third party drivers, and a short time later you will be asked to specify the device and insert the floppy. Then setup will see the drives attatched to the gigabyte controller and you can install the OS to one of those drives. It might be better for you to boot from the setup disk and do a repair install, (not to be confused with the recovery console), the only problem is you might need to install some service packs again. You wouldn't need any drivers to install to a drive on the ICH8 SATA ports. Is your copy of XP retail or OEM? If it's OEM you probably won't be able to use it on your new machine. In the long run a fresh install might be the best option. Good luck. <snip> |
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